Why Listen
In this episode of CVM Stories, we sit down with Orkhan Alipashayev, Head of CVM and BA at Aztelekom, and Aykhan Baylarov, Founder of Dominanta Experience, as they share how to build a customer-centric and profit-driven culture from the ground up.
Tune in to hear how they transformed customer experience in a telco from zero to national ministerial praise, what challenges they faced, and the key steps they took to build it.
6 Tips on How to Build a Customer-Centric and Profit-Driven Culture
1. Align on who your customer really is
You can’t build CX or measure value without a shared definition of “customer” — misalignment creates confusion in reporting, KPIs, and beyond. Tip: align on one definition — like “one address = one customer” — and apply it consistently across the company.
2. Use data stories to shift behaviors
Dashboards don’t drive decisions — stories do. Data only creates change when it’s framed in a way people understand, feel, and act on. Tip: use unexpected patterns or even flawed data with a touch of humor to tell stories that create emotional connection.
3. Break silos by connecting face-to-face
Silos kill momentum. Real alignment happens when teams talk — on the ground, not over email. Tip: visit frontline teams, listen actively, and remind everyone it’s about the customer — not control.
4. Prove value early to get buy-in
Legacy tech isn’t an excuse. Create early impact with what you have to make the case for bigger investments. Tip: look for workarounds — Python, R, or spreadsheets — to extract insights from even the oldest systems.
5. Connect CX metrics to real business impact
CX matters when it’s tied to business results. Making customer results part of KPIs drives accountability across teams. Tip: add NPS or retention KPIs to annual reviews across teams in tech, ops, and support teams.
6. Let CX and CVM work as one team
Customer satisfaction and commercial growth aren’t separate goals. When CX owns friction and CVM owns action, results follow. Tip: turn complaints into touchpoints. One billing issue became a pop-up… and that became an upsell channel.
Episode Highlights
- Launching CVM from zero in a state-owned telco.
- From project manager to head of CVM: Orkhan’s journey.
- How CX and CVM roles overlap and complement each other.
- Fighting legacy systems and building trust in data.
- Turning chaos into daily automation through Python and R.
- Transforming culture: from blame to customer-centric thinking.
- Ministerial recognition boosts internal trust and morale.
- Nationwide fiber rollout and record-breaking speed boosts.
- Breaking silos with real field visits and shared ownership.
- Creating a zero-rated landing page to smooth customer friction.
Recommendations for Growth as a Professional
For Aykhan, growth comes from staying grounded in reality — listening to customers, talking to call center agents, and learning directly from the frontlines. Orkhan believes progress starts when you stretch yourself. Every major step in his career began with choosing discomfort over safety.
Final Words
Transformation doesn’t always start with technology. It starts with ownership, persistence, and cross-functional trust. Orkhan and Aykhan’s journey proves that with the right mindset, even the most complex organizations can become truly customer-centric — and commercially smarter.
TRANSCRIPT
[00:00:00] Orkhan and Aykhan : Minister, just look at me. Says, thank you guys for your work. Nobody will listen to you [00:00:05] if you don’t back up your decisions or backed up your analysis. Real data. I’m [00:00:10] not talking about voice of customer. There wasn’t even a sound of customer.
[00:00:14] Exacaster: Welcome to CVM [00:00:15] Stories, the podcast on customer value management. Together, we explore how companies [00:00:20] can be more successful and the customers happier through the use of latest customer value management techniques. [00:00:25] Learn key commercial and analytical insights from telecoms, retail, finance [00:00:30] and other industries that drive CVM forward.
[00:00:33] Egidijus: Hi, I am Egidijus, your [00:00:35] host. Today we have a special episode. We will be having two guests, [00:00:40] Orkhan Alipashayev and Aykhan Baylarov. [00:00:45] They will share a story about a customer experience transformation [00:00:50] in Aztelekom. They will give away their secrets on how to build [00:00:55] a customer centric mindset and a profit centered culture in a large [00:01:00] organization from scratch. It’s a very interesting story. So let’s get [00:01:05] started. Orkhan, Aykhan, thank you for joining me [00:01:10] today. This is a very special episode because we have two [00:01:15] guests instead of usually having one. And we have a very exciting, [00:01:20] uh, episode about the story of how to transform an [00:01:25] organization which is partly state owned, from having zero [00:01:30] CVM processes into achieving customer centric perspective [00:01:35] and profit centered culture. So I am not [00:01:40] sure what this means exactly, but I hope that I can can. Can [00:01:45] you explain us a bit more about your story?
[00:01:47] Orkhan and Aykhan : First of all, thank you for having us. We’re really [00:01:50] excited to have this conversation. Uh, when preparing for this interview, [00:01:55] we had a conversation with Orkhan that, hey, let’s do a storytelling session, kind of, [00:02:00] because we like to tell the stories, and it’s important to us that it’s always, uh, it [00:02:05] has the part that actually happened because we don’t like theory, we like practice, we [00:02:10] like experience. Uh, the story is really about perseverance. Uh, why [00:02:15] this word really describes this situation. Because, uh, we believe that [00:02:20] CX and CVM all have a certain, uh, stage at any [00:02:25] organization where it’s mature enough to be existent. You know, um, [00:02:30] and this story is about the beginning, the building, the foundation. It’s about persevering [00:02:35] through, uh, misdirected legacy that we faced a lot. It’s [00:02:40] about fighting resistance and taking on challenges that we faced along the way.
[00:02:46] Egidijus: Um, [00:02:45] so I am super excited to, to go into that story. [00:02:50] But before we dive deep into it, uh, [00:02:55] Aykhan and Orkhan. Could you, uh, tell [00:03:00] a bit about yourself? What is what was your career path and what are you guys doing. [00:03:05]
[00:03:06] Orkhan and Aykhan : For the past, uh, eight, 8 to 9 years? I [00:03:10] was, uh, in telco business. First I started in mobile. [00:03:15] I worked as product specialist, then I switched a little bit, [00:03:20] worked like a as project manager. Then I switched to the business intelligence. Like [00:03:25] some kind of transformation in myself happened while I was [00:03:30] doing my project manager tasks. And at that time, [00:03:35] uh, my future manager looked at me and saw the potential I have in terms [00:03:40] of, uh, analytics mindset. So for the past four years, [00:03:45] uh, I worked at Aztelekom and Baktelecom together with Aykhan we built [00:03:50] the business intelligence team from scratch. And now I’m also, launched [00:03:55] the activities in the company and I became [00:04:00] the head of BA and CVM.
[00:04:04] Egidijus: So [00:04:05] it seems that Orkhan, you have moved through many different steps in organization, which [00:04:10] is exactly what is needed for a very cross-functional CVM role.
[00:04:16] Orkhan and Aykhan : Yes, [00:04:15] the basically story will tell [00:04:20] you. Our story will tell you how we moved through the structure in the past [00:04:25] this for four years.
[00:04:27] Egidijus: So I can how about you? What [00:04:30] was your journey?
[00:04:31] Orkhan and Aykhan : I see myself as a CX and service transformation leader and [00:04:35] I have extensive background in different industries like telco is [00:04:40] one of the biggest one. I have experience in banking, logistics and even government. [00:04:45] Um, currently I’m providing strategic and operational [00:04:50] CX services through a private practice called Dominant Experience. But up [00:04:55] until last year I was part of the team with Orkhan [00:05:00] at Aztelekom and I was leading the customer centered mindset change at [00:05:05] that organization. Uh, and uh, we actually know each other with [00:05:10] Orkhan for I’d say 5 or 6 years. Yeah, something like that. Yeah. [00:05:15]
[00:05:16] Egidijus: Um, okay. Um, [00:05:20] so when we think about. [00:05:25] Customer experience and customer value management, [00:05:30] for me, these two fields are very kind [00:05:35] of overlapping. And I personally don’t have a [00:05:40] very clear distinction because kind of both of them are cross-functional. Both of [00:05:45] them impact customer through many different pathways. Uh, [00:05:50] how do you guys The define your responsibilities and how do you define [00:05:55] this overlap together?
[00:05:57] Orkhan and Aykhan : If I may take this part for the CX [00:06:00] part, um, there’s many definitions about customer experience that are generally [00:06:05] accepted or even, uh, you know, developed. But uh, the one I [00:06:10] really like is CX is an internal customer reaction that a customer has [00:06:15] with your business. Uh, simply said as that, uh, but essentially it’s [00:06:20] the entire journey that this customer has with your business. Uh, and examples [00:06:25] can range from opening a packaging box. It’s about the usability of your website. It’s [00:06:30] about the call center, a tone of voice and many more examples. But some [00:06:35] it’s really what, uh, customer feels internally his internal [00:06:40] reaction to your business. Um, if we talk about functions [00:06:45] in the organization who manages customer experience, uh, there’s Several [00:06:50] different definitions for that as well. But I really like the customer experience [00:06:55] management function, which essentially, uh, out this journey and manages [00:07:00] it uh, at the at all the touch points. Okay. So, [00:07:05] um, if, if there’s any experience, uh, friction a customer has, this, [00:07:10] uh, function would be responsible for identifying it. Uh, it’s like an engine. [00:07:15] If an engine doesn’t work, first you have to see why it’s not working and pinpoint the, uh, [00:07:20] the friction. So this is really how I look at it as far as structure goes, [00:07:25] uh, it varies from organization to organization. Some companies [00:07:30] have a dedicated function called customer experience management. Uh, usually it’s organizations [00:07:35] that already have a business process, uh, in place. They have [00:07:40] the staffed teams. Uh, the core services are almost perfectly, [00:07:45] you know, uh, the gears. The gears are not, uh, stock. [00:07:50] They’re working. Uh, others have it as a project or a program. I see a lot of companies [00:07:55] just having it as a program, uh, which combines, uh, mobilizing [00:08:00] all the teams and having, let’s say, representatives from other streams.
[00:08:04] Orkhan and Aykhan : And [00:08:05] I think the most common what I see and what we experienced at Aztelekom was having a CX champion, [00:08:10] uh, it’s an imaginary position. It’s not really written in [00:08:15] your resume, even, but, uh, how I know it, I was the I believe I was the [00:08:20] sixth champion at Aztelekom. Uh, at first we didn’t really have, uh, like [00:08:25] I say, this function, but someone had to own the experience, you know, be responsible [00:08:30] for the experience. And I believe that I, due to my position at the time, was responsible [00:08:35] for it because I was, uh, factually, I was head of marketing, [00:08:40] which spanned, uh, products as a main core business side, [00:08:45] uh, marketing communications and by at the time. So it’s all about, [00:08:50] uh, having, uh, the seat at the table at the decision making [00:08:55] table, uh, because if you can make any impact, you can really manage this experience. [00:09:00] So this is how I would say the industry sees it and how we experienced [00:09:05] it at Aztelekom during our tenure there. For [00:09:10] CVM part, uh, I will I won’t tell you the, uh, [00:09:15] by by the book definitions. I know you, your audience or you already know that. I’m [00:09:20] guessing that, uh, but for us Aztelekom, it [00:09:25] was like a step in the business. Uh, in the business maturity, [00:09:30] uh, we did a very large project where we expanded [00:09:35] our coverage for our services. And, uh, every time when you do that, [00:09:40] you, uh, you will literally stuck at the part where you can [00:09:45] you cannot do acquisitions anymore and you should focus [00:09:50] on retention and value increase. That’s [00:09:55] that’s where our CVM, uh, defines in our company in Az [00:10:00]telekom.
[00:10:02] Egidijus: Um, so, uh, now I have [00:10:05] one heartbreaking question for you guys. So, uh, if customer, [00:10:10] uh, gets the offer that they don’t like. So who [00:10:15] is to blame? Who is it to blame? Because the there’s a bad experience. Is [00:10:20] it experience or is it CVM? And, uh, how do you work together?
[00:10:24] Orkhan and Aykhan : Yes, [00:10:25] it is bad experience, but created by CVM. So CVM is responsible [00:10:30] for that. I believe it’s a team effort. I mean, we understand that in corporate [00:10:35] environment there are silos. We would also like to talk about that later. But, [00:10:40] uh, it’s all about the team and how you work together. Because the way we set up our work [00:10:45] with Orkhan at the time was that we would, uh, handle all customer [00:10:50] complaints together. Uh, yes. At the end of the day, it is the responsibility [00:10:55] and scope of certain functions within the organization. But just having those sessions, [00:11:00] uh, for, uh, not regular, you know, uh, complaints [00:11:05] or let’s say they did some action on their part and then the call center gets, [00:11:10] uh, the feedback, uh, we would always go to the core, try to do the [00:11:15] core analysis and see what’s really wrong and try to solve it together, because, [00:11:20] uh, if you have that silo mentality, you just keep shooting stuff at [00:11:25] each other. Either it’s emails or real, you know, hatchets. I don’t know if other organizations [00:11:30] have that practice.
[00:11:32] Egidijus: It’s always good to have somebody somebody to blame, you know? Yeah. [00:11:35]
[00:11:36] Orkhan and Aykhan : We always said we we were to blame. So, [00:11:40] uh.
[00:11:43] Egidijus: Um, I know [00:11:45] that, uh, in your organization, uh, you went from [00:11:50] zero CVM and customer experience processes to this [00:11:55] large transformation. So how did you decide, guys, to make [00:12:00] this step? You know, from nothing to best in in [00:12:05] the world type of thing.
[00:12:08] Orkhan and Aykhan : Um, I can start [00:12:10] that’s the for the very first years, the [00:12:15] most, most pain. Uh, I had the most pain in our team because, [00:12:20] uh, I had to work with legacy systems. So, uh, we had [00:12:25] to deal with very, very old, very outdated, and. No, [00:12:30] no, no more, uh, supported OSS [00:12:35] and BSS system. And, uh, first of all, we we [00:12:40] tried just to get the right figures for the business because business KPIs was [00:12:45] not measured. So we are talking like from complete zero, not from like [00:12:50] some stage. There was no stage, there was zero. So yeah. [00:12:55] Apart from that we we [00:13:00] had like culture in the company that is not aligning [00:13:05] its decision on based on data. So we had to, [00:13:10] uh, educate people by data storytelling. That [00:13:15] data is good. You need data. You have to own it. You have to. Shape [00:13:20] your decisions based on that. As far as, uh, [00:13:25] not having, uh, management of CX, I would say that, uh, [00:13:30] any organization, uh, has to have a separate function if the [00:13:35] internal business processes are at a mature level and their [00:13:40] so-called, uh, terminology as jobs to be done in customer experience. Uh, [00:13:45] I really believe that if the company didn’t define their jobs to be done, they can [00:13:50] really start, uh, having it as a function. So that would be [00:13:55] the main two criterias for any organization to have, uh, to achieve [00:14:00] in order to make this function relevant. Uh, a function that would focus on CX, [00:14:05] um, for CVM part, the relevance comes [00:14:10] from the stage that you have your business in. Like for in our in our case, [00:14:15] as I said, uh, as I [00:14:20] already said, we have like acquisition part done and we’re on the stage of the retention [00:14:25] strategies and value increase strategies. That’s where CVM [00:14:30] becomes very relevant in, uh, for for fixed business, [00:14:35] at least because you always have some fixed, uh, The coverage that you need to [00:14:40] expand or you plan to expand, or you already achieved the, uh, [00:14:45] the level where you can go any further. Uh, that’s the way CVM [00:14:50] becomes relevant, too, because you have no you have nothing to increase value from. [00:14:55]
[00:14:56] Egidijus: And you, um, you [00:15:00] mentioned that, um, in the beginning, you had nothing. Uh, [00:15:05] could you explain what a nothing means to us?
[00:15:11] Orkhan and Aykhan : Uh, [00:15:10] I didn’t believe it myself. As people [00:15:15] say, you you should see with your own eyes. So there was, like, [00:15:20] very outdated legacy system that was built in late [00:15:25] 80s, I think 80s or maybe even 90s, uh, for maintaining [00:15:30] the copper infrastructure. And, uh, I always when [00:15:35] people ask me like, uh, what was really the problem? Like, you’re [00:15:40] currently using this system. I also explained it like in Harry Potter, there [00:15:45] was Ron Weasley’s house, like it was a small house, and then it [00:15:50] was built upwards and it was not stable. It had [00:15:55] many problems and they always correcting it. So I had the same issue, [00:16:00] like I had a very small, uh, legacy system that was not supported [00:16:05] by anything, even to you can’t access it. Like to access [00:16:10] it, you need to emulate the emulation of the terminal that [00:16:15] can access this system. So that’s why, uh, we not [00:16:20] we like the, the company who was maintaining the this legacy [00:16:25] system had to build interfaces around that and build another interfaces [00:16:30] on top of those interfaces just to get the data from this. You. [00:16:35] Uh, I can say I could not get even daily. [00:16:40] For example, you can only do it monthly because most of the subscriptions [00:16:45] are monthly based. And once in a month, this legacy system [00:16:50] probably built on like old cards. And that [00:16:55] worked on that environment. It only do the calculations once a [00:17:00] month, so once a month it does all the calculation needed and you get [00:17:05] the result, like, uh, which customer paid, which customer is not paid, which [00:17:10] has which subscription, etc.. And before I saw [00:17:15] it with my own eyes, I was not like believing people who told [00:17:20] me told me about it. Uh.
[00:17:23] Egidijus: So how could you tell, for example, [00:17:25] how many customers do you have?
[00:17:28] Orkhan and Aykhan : I first [00:17:30] of all, my my first problem was like, let’s define the customer. [00:17:35] What? What customer means? Uh, several. We had several departments, from [00:17:40] the technical to even the human resources. Uh, whoever says [00:17:45] customer, they mean different things. Someone means some description. Someone [00:17:50] means the one home address. Someone means the physical person. Uh, the first [00:17:55] I tried to settle the definition of the customers, which we settled at one home address, [00:18:00] one, let’s say apartment. In order to count the customers, we had to count [00:18:05] like physical lines. Uh, physical lines, meaning the, uh, current [00:18:10] landline connection to to the customers. And, uh, on [00:18:15] top of that connection, whenever we give also the internet services, that’s [00:18:20] where we understood that the customer had also internet as well. [00:18:25] And, uh, basically by counting the payments [00:18:30] for the landline system and filtering out the ones who is not paying for the [00:18:35] internet services. We count our customers.
[00:18:42] Egidijus: Okay, [00:18:40] this sounds very good. A [00:18:45] good start. So where are you now? It’s [00:18:50] like, did you bypass this barrier already?
[00:18:55] Orkhan and Aykhan : Yeah, [00:18:55] the barriers are still there. I just build it like a maze [00:19:00] around those barriers. We just, uh, we are, uh, trying [00:19:05] to change our BSS system, and we have ongoing project [00:19:10] which is going for at least three years, and we are planning to finish it soon. [00:19:15] But until this day, we had to do something to work as is in [00:19:20] this kind of environment. We set up the, uh, like extraction [00:19:25] of the raw data. And we also [00:19:30] have like several technical buildings, which is managing the internet service [00:19:35] separately. The other service also is separately. We gathering [00:19:40] the all the data sources and through some automation that [00:19:45] we built on both Python and R, we are calculating our uh [00:19:50] data for analysis. So we also we went from completely nothing [00:19:55] and like nowhere to get the data to, uh, get [00:20:00] stable daily extractions from all the systems and all converted [00:20:05] into, uh, normal readable format that can every, [00:20:10] every team can use. We also have like automated reports that [00:20:15] were we were not even dream about back in the days. But [00:20:20] we all get there through the hard manual work because, uh, [00:20:25] how how you you cannot change [00:20:30] the BSS system. At least you should adapt to it. Adapt to the reality [00:20:35] that you are currently.
[00:20:37] Egidijus: So you, uh, you had a pretty big [00:20:40] transformation. Yes. So going from one one monthly, [00:20:45] some, I don’t know txt extracts to something like, uh, a functional [00:20:50] CVM team. Could you describe a bit more this process?
[00:20:55] Orkhan and Aykhan : Yeah. [00:20:55] So, uh, one of our issues was the culture [00:21:00] in the company that is not data driven. So we tried to to show [00:21:05] people that data storytelling in very high transformable, [00:21:10] uh, environment is very, very important thing because, no, [00:21:15] nobody will listen to you if you don’t backed up your decisions or backed [00:21:20] up your analysis. Real data. And I understand those people, because if [00:21:25] you don’t have data on hands, you have to like, I don’t know, they improvised [00:21:30] or something, but, uh, you need to have it in place. I [00:21:35] can tell you an example where, like, we, uh, analyzed some, [00:21:40] uh, technical data from the guys from other department, [00:21:45] and the technical data they had on hand was, uh, very dirty. [00:21:50] Like, people was, uh, struggling to gather this data, and he [00:21:55] don’t want to do it, uh, overall, because, uh, by [00:22:00] by this time, he he was managing his job without it. But [00:22:05] we showed him the like there is a there is an issue. You will not see it. And, [00:22:10] uh, we basically in the rollout, you have very big [00:22:15] plans to, uh, buy the every materials. How many how [00:22:20] many items do you need for each, for example, area that you will go [00:22:25] and build your infrastructure..
[00:22:27] Orkhan and Aykhan : So we try to analyze that [00:22:30] data to see which areas are at which stages. Because the work [00:22:35] was, uh, was done, uh, very chaotically. But if [00:22:40] you don’t know where you are, then you cannot estimate like where some areas when [00:22:45] you should start, for example, acquisition. As simple as that. So we showed the [00:22:50] data. We took the data as, as is from the guys. We showed [00:22:55] them the issues. Basically, when you see the issue, you should [00:23:00] try to fix it, try to understand why the issue is there. You need [00:23:05] to fix your data. But, uh, when, when [00:23:10] no one wants to listen you I that my solution was to present it as [00:23:15] is. I understood that issue was there, but I make it like a funny joke. [00:23:20] And, uh, after that, people start taking the They [00:23:25] are very seriously in their team. They saw the things that they will never solve without those [00:23:30] data. So basically the transformation that we’ve done I [00:23:35] think was significant just by small part of that. And the [00:23:40] one thing also helped us was empowerment. So we had [00:23:45] the ongoing support from the consultancy team that [00:23:50] was also empowering them to do it.
[00:23:54] Egidijus: Okay. [00:23:55] And what was the role of basically consulting team? Is [00:24:00] it like did they do the job or did they help you somehow or other. [00:24:05]
[00:24:07] Orkhan and Aykhan : So basically consultancy team was [00:24:10] us. So the exact thing that we saw and what the exact thing that we want. [00:24:15] And just in that case we basically used [00:24:20] their. Authority to, uh, [00:24:25] to make the changes that we need to be done. As [00:24:30] as an example. Uh, so we we did a [00:24:35] really big project online Azerbaijan project, and we had to report the [00:24:40] progress that we are making because everyone knows that project is ongoing, but [00:24:45] no one knows where it’s going and where where do we stand? So with the help of, uh, [00:24:50] consultancy, we built a really good, uh, really insightful report [00:24:55] that showed the progress about the ongoing project and where [00:25:00] we are. And at those time.
[00:25:03] Egidijus: So we understood how, uh, [00:25:05] the CVM piece was born, and [00:25:10] I can, can can you tell us a bit about how the customer [00:25:15] experience piece, uh, appeared?
[00:25:18] Orkhan and Aykhan : Mhm. Yeah. It’s [00:25:20] actually not not much of a different story. The first time we [00:25:25] arrived at the, you know, at the company. Uh, what I [00:25:30] really like to do is do mystery shopping. Uh, the first day when I [00:25:35] start working somewhere. So that’s what I did. I wasn’t even let in the the [00:25:40] the branch because I came too early. Apparently, I wasn’t let in to the [00:25:45] branch. And then I had to, you know, show who I was and stuff like that and let in. So let’s [00:25:50] not go into that detail, but that kind of shows you the culture there. But, uh, it’s, [00:25:55] uh, there were no surveys, no, no feedback mechanisms. I’m not talking [00:26:00] about voice of customer. There wasn’t even a sound of customer, you know, uh, and [00:26:05] the the mindset was kind of blaming the customer. You know, the customer was at [00:26:10] fault, uh, at most cases, you know, quote unquote. But, uh, [00:26:15] that’s where we started. We ended up, uh, at having a dedicated [00:26:20] Department renamed and called Customer Experience [00:26:25] Management. We created a unit called Customer Success to help with the onboarding process. [00:26:30] We do. They still do, uh, extensive [00:26:35] competitive research. They do an NPS Net Promoter score, they do, uh, [00:26:40] CSat, the customer satisfaction surveys. And it’s all done on a very frequent [00:26:45] basis, which gives you visibility, uh, versus like or how I was [00:26:50] saying we would see the data only once a month. Same with the feedback. Uh, [00:26:55] we didn’t see any data. Then it started doing, uh, several times a year, and eventually [00:27:00] it came to a more, uh, a more frequent basis.
[00:27:04] Orkhan and Aykhan : But, [00:27:05] uh, there were several, I think, uh, main criterias [00:27:10] that, uh, were the cause of our success for setting up the CX culture. [00:27:15] Uh, one of them, I wouldn’t say it’s the first one, but one of them is the team. [00:27:20] Once again, if you didn’t identify why you’re doing this job like [00:27:25] what your product is, if you don’t have ownership of your systems and business processes, you can’t really [00:27:30] talk about any customer experience, you know, because you didn’t provide the core value. [00:27:35] So I believe that one of the reasons we achieved that success was having [00:27:40] an established and fully staffed team who owned the product, who owned the process, who owned [00:27:45] in a good way, the customer. So there was always a person responsible for, [00:27:50] uh, any, uh, uncertainties or any unusual cases. Um, [00:27:55] another was the top down approach. Uh, if if there’s no support [00:28:00] and empowerment from the management, uh, it wouldn’t be possible. So I would say [00:28:05] that strategically speaking and management speaking, it’s very important that management also [00:28:10] talks about CX in the meetings and etc.. Uh, another case was about the metrics. [00:28:15] I mean, uh, there are 3 or 4 main metrics in CGH, and [00:28:20] we managed to get NPS and CSat as one of the main [00:28:25] KPIs in the yearly performance reviews and in targets for [00:28:30] all different functions, even not commonly believed to be relevant [00:28:35] to CGH, but that really helped us culture wise. Uh, it’s [00:28:40] about, uh, the perseverance part really comes in handy here. [00:28:45] Uh, we had a lot of moments where we had situations where we saw that [00:28:50] system was against us.
[00:28:51] Orkhan and Aykhan : We are this new guys that came in with a customer [00:28:55] centric mindset, but we are faced with this old, uh, resistant [00:29:00] legacy that’s not believing, uh, it wasn’t either commercially [00:29:05] driven or, uh, data driven or customer centric, you know, so we [00:29:10] really had a challenge to fix all of that. So it was really fighting all [00:29:15] these Fights, small fights, big battles. It was putting out [00:29:20] fires. Uh, all all in, uh, like as a result, doing [00:29:25] all that consistently and, uh, doing it as a team because you couldn’t [00:29:30] fight this battle alone. It was Orkhan’s team. It was other teams that [00:29:35] also, uh, mobilized under one umbrella, under one vision [00:29:40] to achieve that. But, uh, funny story, I’m talking about [00:29:45] this. But really coming back to the storyline the first time we, uh. So, [00:29:50] so we we had this first survey. We were happy. Okay, we got some data going in. It [00:29:55] took some time to really, uh, actually, you know, uh, to [00:30:00] synthesize the, uh, data that came in because us, we [00:30:05] had experience with this data. We know what this data means, but we knew that the audience, [00:30:10] uh, I mean, I just told you about the culture, you know, but we still said, okay, [00:30:15] we will go with the full scale presentation. We’ll do a brief presentation about [00:30:20] why we need NPS and CSat. So we started the presentation. We were already [00:30:25] into, you know, the promoters and detractors, uh, and the CEO at the time, [00:30:30] he was like, okay, wait a moment.
[00:30:32] Orkhan and Aykhan : Do you? And he like, faced the whole audience. And he’s like, [00:30:35] do you even understand what’s going on? And of course, no one said no. But we [00:30:40] really felt that in the room. It was tension and also uncertainty of, okay, [00:30:45] what is this? Do I need to know this or am I part of this? So he really stopped us and said, [00:30:50] guys, go deep dive on the definition. Why we need NPS, how do you use [00:30:55] to improve your business and etc.. So we spend about half an hour just talking about what [00:31:00] NPS was, why we needed it, and uh, really, truly we felt [00:31:05] that the room got softer, the room got more friendly. You know, we got some [00:31:10] people already engaging in the presentation. Uh, baby steps. [00:31:15] But eventually we became, uh, like a more, uh, engaged as a [00:31:20] team, as a more broad team engaged into getting these results. Like, there are even [00:31:25] cases where, uh, we just did the presentation, uh, a regular presentation. [00:31:30] Uh, imagine that the whole branches from the whole country, they all join, [00:31:35] uh, like, online meeting, and we do a high level presentation because in addition [00:31:40] to the actual report, we the goal was to improve the NPS through, uh, generating [00:31:45] an action plan. So we would identify the the pain points. The pain points [00:31:50] were always at branches, at touch points, either, uh, the [00:31:55] customer facing, you know, uh, door to door [00:32:00] team, sales team, I don’t know, contact center or it was the branches. So what [00:32:05] we, uh, focused a lot on was, uh.
[00:32:07] Egidijus: Could you share some of the pain points so that we [00:32:10] would better visualize them?
[00:32:12] Orkhan and Aykhan : The pain points would be the [00:32:15] detractors would always complain about the speed, quality, or quality in general. Not [00:32:20] a lot of people complained about prices, so it was mostly about the quality of the product. [00:32:25] And uh, one of the biggest, uh, let’s say example of [00:32:30] this resistance was most of the people at branches were technical guys, you know, [00:32:35] and when you talked about the quality of network, it would take, they would take it personally, you know, so [00:32:40] we would always be, uh, received as this, you know, the guys from headquarters coming [00:32:45] in and just telling us something, you know, and we always explained that this is just data. [00:32:50] Yes. It’s kind of indicative because it’s subjective. It’s the, uh, it’s the [00:32:55] perception of person. You know, it’s a general perception of [00:33:00] customer. At the point of the survey, we explained that as well. And, uh, they [00:33:05] would always say, I have no issues with my technical side. My network is going good. [00:33:10] They would even pull up some reports on technical side, and we would always kind of bring [00:33:15] them back that, hey, the customer doesn’t understand this. They don’t understand [00:33:20] how the network works. They just see at their home, uh, at the last mile, [00:33:25] that how uh, in general during, let’s say one month or several [00:33:30] months, how they feel about our product. By doing that, [00:33:35] we kind of explained and helped them to, uh, look at the issue from a customer [00:33:40] lens. You know, as, as a customer. That really helped. But mostly it was [00:33:45] issues like that, people complaining about quality. But the funny [00:33:50] side is and kind of interesting side. The promoters were also saying [00:33:55] they liked the service because of the quality, you know. So [00:34:00] uh, for each detractor, we would have at least several, uh, promoters who would say we [00:34:05] like the quality. It’s stable, it’s fast. Uh, And I mean, even the data [00:34:10] now shows that it’s really a stable service. In general.
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[00:34:31] Egidijus: As this is such a huge transformation, could you tell [00:34:35] us a bit about your, let’s say, early quick wins or early wins [00:34:40] in the process of kind of how you were able to mobilize [00:34:45] these teams? Because in the very beginning, I understand that this is [00:34:50] kind of a tough learning curve, but did you did you [00:34:55] get any kind of, I don’t know, thumbs up in the, in the beginning from, I don’t [00:35:00] know, your management or whatever.
[00:35:04] Orkhan and Aykhan : Um, I [00:35:05] can cover the one part of it, maybe. But when [00:35:10] we always did something, we had a certain standard. That standard came from our previous [00:35:15] experience working in either other telco companies or other companies. So I [00:35:20] would generally say that everything that we did, we weren’t completely satisfied [00:35:25] with it, you know? To us, it was okay. We did it. It could be better. So [00:35:30] the only way to understand how it was, uh, assessed by others [00:35:35] would see their reaction. So there’s actually one, uh, a truly powerful [00:35:40] empowerment moment that I would like Orkhan to tell about how, uh, [00:35:45] his work and his team’s work, actually, uh, was shown [00:35:50] the empowerment was shown in action. So if Orkhan would tell that story. Yeah, yeah, I will tell [00:35:55] that story. That actually helped us not only to receive [00:36:00] this empowerment, but, uh, also make people trust to to [00:36:05] the data, and at least if the data comes from our team, they should [00:36:10] trust it because we are checking and double checking it, etc.. So as I already told [00:36:15] you, we had like very big report about the progress of [00:36:20] our largest project online, Azerbaijan, and we [00:36:25] finished the very huge analytical work [00:36:30] on the data that we had that was gathered manually. [00:36:35]
[00:36:35] Orkhan and Aykhan : Even some data was by written in the document. We took it, [00:36:40] some data was uh, like, uh, checked on the site [00:36:45] itself. Uh, we, uh, our technical team did a great job [00:36:50] to collect all the data that, uh, should, should have been there, but never was. [00:36:55] And we built a very large, uh, presentation and, uh, uh, [00:37:00] the presentation, we showed that dashboard, Uh the [00:37:05] dashboard was interactive report about the all the areas [00:37:10] that we are currently working at. It was even dividing it by the [00:37:15] progress stages and showing the exact number of households, etc.. [00:37:20] So report is not so great, but considering that we have lost [00:37:25] nothing, report report was really good and we I remember talking with [00:37:30] Diane like we watched it and say like it is okay for now. We can proceed with [00:37:35] it. Like we we already had our standards, but it was not it [00:37:40] was not great by our standards, but it had the minimal things [00:37:45] that we should have to move forward. So one day, uh, as, as [00:37:50] I told, I was told uh, later I was called by [00:37:55] the it was actually consultancy company. Uh, they called me like, we have [00:38:00] a very serious meeting with the minister and, we need to, [00:38:05] uh.
[00:38:06] Orkhan and Aykhan : We need we need you to be to be here. So I gathered my laptop [00:38:10] and other things like. Okay, I probably need to explain [00:38:15] the how the metrics are collected or what? Which figures? Uh, means, uh, what [00:38:20] thing? And, uh, I went there and Minister just looked at me, says like, [00:38:25] thank you guys for your work. And they. That was all. Why [00:38:30] why I was bringing that to that meeting. So, uh, after after [00:38:35] that, the people really saw the impact of this kind of work like it [00:38:40] not only for the this one single project. It needs to be done for the whole [00:38:45] company, for whichever the function that is there, it should have own data. [00:38:50] It should have the mindset to gather it, analyze it and use it properly. [00:38:55] And that was also an empowerment. And it was [00:39:00] also helped me to make myself as a trustworthy source of the data. [00:39:05] Because even whenever a people need something, they [00:39:10] always ask me like, where can I get it? Because I already been in every [00:39:15] like little system peaked at little data that they have. And, [00:39:20] uh, this, uh, this empowerment helped us [00:39:25] pick the team that we already have.
[00:39:28] Egidijus: What was this project about? [00:39:30] It seems very important.
[00:39:33] Orkhan and Aykhan : So this this [00:39:35] is a nationwide project to cover the whole the whole territory [00:39:40] of the country with the fiber infrastructure. Uh, it was started in 2021. [00:39:45] And as of today, in just four years, we [00:39:50] covered, uh, we did a 100%, almost [00:39:55] 100% coverage of the whole country with fiber network. So, [00:40:00] uh, fiber network is gigabit phone network, [00:40:05] so it’s also more energy efficient compared to the existing copper infrastructure. [00:40:10] So we did a lot of dismantling of copper. We migrated, [00:40:15] uh, users on aDSL to the new fiber network. [00:40:20] Uh, in you can already see in the for example, in [00:40:25] Oakland reports in Azerbaijan, statistics like 3 [00:40:30] or 4 years ago how the average speed was and currently where [00:40:35] we are at now. So we had like more than ten times increase in, uh, speeds, [00:40:40] both download and upload. Uh, we also had like the May [00:40:45] probably the largest fiber penetration, uh, across [00:40:50] the fixed internet users in the Europe. I checked [00:40:55] the our data is not official. Um, reported yet or analyzed [00:41:00] by many different companies that do this kind of researches. [00:41:05] But I compared their data to our own, and in four [00:41:10] years we did like ten years job of, uh, average country [00:41:15] in the Europe.
[00:41:17] Egidijus: Okay. So I can after [00:41:20] this upgrade of customer experience, did you have any job [00:41:25] left to do because you just increase customer experience through ten times bigger speed [00:41:30] than you’re done?
[00:41:33] Orkhan and Aykhan : Uh, it’s you would assume [00:41:35] that it should work. And, I mean, you’re just paid for, uh, you know, not working, [00:41:40] but it never actually ends in there. You know, I would say that it’s part of the core, [00:41:45] uh, offering. I mean, in, in, in fixed internet business, it’s all about the the [00:41:50] speed, the stability, the quality of the network, um, and the last mile. [00:41:55] And then only, I think after you have that handled, you can provide any [00:42:00] additional value to the customer. So, uh, since [00:42:05] we were still at the acquisition stage, the rollout was still going on. [00:42:10] Um, it was a very, uh, active acquisition stage. So we had a lot [00:42:15] of, uh, sales activities. We had a lot of new connections, new requests [00:42:20] and etc.. Uh, and at that time, uh, one of the things that we were [00:42:25] lacking when we first started it was online requests. I mean, you would assume an internet company [00:42:30] should have proper online requests, policy or procedure or process. We didn’t [00:42:35] have that, unfortunately. So one of the first things we did was create a very [00:42:40] simple online request form. But it’s not just about creating [00:42:45] that UX side. You know, there’s the communication side. You have to draw that traffic [00:42:50] into that. There’s the culture of people that, uh, after they get the internet, [00:42:55] They can, you know, access this form even though they have [00:43:00] we have really good mobile network penetration. Uh, but, uh, [00:43:05] the most challenging part would be creating the team that would handle this request, you [00:43:10] know, because, uh, when you create some new, uh, feature or new, uh, kind [00:43:15] of flow in the journey, uh, it is a touch point.
[00:43:18] Orkhan and Aykhan : You know, you need [00:43:20] to, uh, create the business process under. So we had to create [00:43:25] a team from scratch within the call center that would handle this, uh, request, uh, [00:43:30] and merge it with a regular process. So I would say that, uh, [00:43:35] the speed itself didn’t really fix all the issues, uh, but, [00:43:40] uh, it did, uh, I think it fixes issues for the future. [00:43:45] I mean, from the standpoint, I would say that, but, uh, having having [00:43:50] a team I keep saying about team, and I can’t stress it [00:43:55] enough. I think the team, the ownership of the team is the most important thing that [00:44:00] you can have it because customers feel it. You know, at the product, I mean, you can have the best product [00:44:05] or service in the world, but they feel at certain, uh, interaction with the [00:44:10] company if there is an ownership, you know, I do it as a customer myself on daily basis [00:44:15] when I, when I call a call center and I see something like a bug or like [00:44:20] a question, I know, okay, someone wrote this in FAQ. Good. Or hey, he [00:44:25] he sent me a template answer someone didn’t write this specific FAQ. You know, things like that. [00:44:30]
[00:44:32] Egidijus: Um, okay. And, uh, [00:44:35] and, and, uh, how did, uh, the, uh, how [00:44:40] did customer value management processes experience this, uh, fast rollout [00:44:45] of, uh, services? So I assume you had to do some customer [00:44:50] migration projects, upsells and cross-sells happening at the same time. So [00:44:55] how did you handle that?
[00:44:57] Orkhan and Aykhan : So, uh, basically we we [00:45:00] know that strategically we should have it, but we did not have it on hand during the [00:45:05] very, uh, let’s say, uh. During, [00:45:10] in most dynamic part of the project. [00:45:15] But, uh, what we do, uh, the, the [00:45:20] part that you are probably thinking about was done by different teams, [00:45:25] uh, because the strategically we know that, uh, we what what should [00:45:30] we do? Like what we should we do now and, uh, tomorrow, [00:45:35] what should be done. And that’s why the scope was distributed. Even, [00:45:40] uh, call center was, uh, involved into that processes. So, [00:45:45] uh, the one, uh, difficult thing in every [00:45:50] technological rollout is like how to convince [00:45:55] the customer to switch to this faster network. Like what he will benefit from. [00:46:00] So basically what we had is, uh, very simple [00:46:05] thing is just we give it to customers to try it like we did [00:46:10] simple campaigns like try and buy, because in the environment where you does [00:46:15] not have any like complicated, uh, sophisticated BSS [00:46:20] and or systems where data can be generated at least daily, [00:46:25] not or even real time, but not like in monthly [00:46:30] manner. Uh, we try to make it simpler, but creating [00:46:35] the biggest impact. So we analyzed and uh, just simple [00:46:40] try and by was did the trick.
[00:46:43] Egidijus: Um. Okay. [00:46:45] And, uh, so kind of you had [00:46:50] a shortcut here. Uh, but, [00:46:55] uh, kind of. But I like the approach that you kind of take. Uh, you use [00:47:00] the things that, uh, work the best. And from your, [00:47:05] uh, as a team perspective. So I Han, uh, and [00:47:10] so, uh, what did you learn about the collaboration between, uh, [00:47:15] both of you guys?
[00:47:20] Orkhan and Aykhan : We’re [00:47:20] still sitting here, as you see, we’re still friends. So that shows [00:47:25] how the team spirit is still, you know, active. Uh, it turned out [00:47:30] to be a very, uh, strong relationship between everyone. Uh, I [00:47:35] think, uh, the topic is about breaking silos. It’s one of the biggest issues that, uh, [00:47:40] companies have. Data is not shared, insights are not gathered or shared. [00:47:45] That’s why, uh, and every time the customer [00:47:50] is usually, you know, feeling that the negative sides of that. [00:47:55] So when we first started working, we needed to map the journey. [00:48:00] So what we did, we really did a nice exercise. We took the request. It [00:48:05] was a physical, uh, copy of like, so the user would say officially [00:48:10] that, hey, I want to connect to your internet. A bit outdated [00:48:15] process, but that’s what it was at the time. So we took that actual paper [00:48:20] and we followed it as it does throughout the company. That way we could map out the [00:48:25] internal business process, and we saw many touchpoints that [00:48:30] weren’t obvious. You know, for customer, even because you think that, hey, this is [00:48:35] the backstage, this is like the process that customer doesn’t face. But if a technician [00:48:40] calls the customer, that’s a touchpoint, that’s an engagement point. So one [00:48:45] of the situation that I still remember about how we broke the silo was our [00:48:50] trip to the cold center, so we were launching some kind of campaign. I think it was one [00:48:55] of the migration campaigns or something else.
[00:48:57] Orkhan and Aykhan : So we said, okay, we’re talking over phone, [00:49:00] we’re talking over emails. We never saw the face of this. People that would call our customer, [00:49:05] you know, let’s go to the cold center. Let’s see how they operate. Do do they have computers? [00:49:10] Do they have proper, you know, equipment, stuff like that. Are they there? Yeah. [00:49:15] Are they even there? Yeah. Maybe some kind of, you know, AI or whatever. But, [00:49:20] uh, really, we were just curious to see how they operate because it was operating good. It wasn’t [00:49:25] like that bad. But we were curious also to see we write this stuff, this, [00:49:30] uh, ideas and this processes in the office. Let’s see how it is in action. [00:49:35] Uh, and you know what happened. You know, the situations where you don’t know the [00:49:40] person at work like you’re new, uh, there’s kind of a barrier, and then you have [00:49:45] some kind of event or some team building whatever. And after you have inside jokes, [00:49:50] you’re like old friends and everything is fine. You know that feeling? Yeah. We [00:49:55] didn’t have that. We didn’t actually have that. It was a disaster. Uh, [00:50:00] we entered the building. Uh, we had a very hostile, you know, [00:50:05] feeling towards us. Maybe it was, you know, within us. Maybe we felt that way. But that’s [00:50:10] how we felt. We felt the resistance, you know, we looked again, looked at as [00:50:15] these guys from the headquarters, you know, the people in suits come and tell us [00:50:20] what to do. So we felt that and we said, guys, we are here to help the [00:50:25] customer.
[00:50:25] Orkhan and Aykhan : We always refer to the customer. We never said us as a team, you know, as we [00:50:30] the headquarters and stuff, we had that little session. So once they understand [00:50:35] why we’re doing this, all the barriers were off of all. [00:50:40] All the barriers were off. And what we saw was a lot of input. There [00:50:45] were a lot of complaints, both at the process, at the previous team [00:50:50] or whatever. It was like a cumulative, you know, complaints. But it really opened up everyone [00:50:55] and even very, uh, you know, um, quiet [00:51:00] people started talking like, as if we empowered them to talk. So that [00:51:05] would be, uh, the most memorable to me, uh, the moment where we broke the silo. But, [00:51:10] uh, the key success factor here is not just doing it once. It’s about consistently [00:51:15] keeping that conversation going, keeping that relationship because you [00:51:20] would be surprised. But once you stop, the silo is built again because people change people. [00:51:25] It’s all dynamic. You have to keep it that way. I would say that, uh, we didn’t [00:51:30] have those issues within the headquarters team match because, uh, we were close. [00:51:35] We were, you know, sitting together. We’re doing a lot. But all the remote teams, the branches, the call [00:51:40] center, even the sales team that would be in the field. We needed always [00:51:45] to do those exercises to actually get together, to, uh, to develop [00:51:50] that team spirit, you know, with them.
[00:51:53] Egidijus: Um, so, so [00:51:55] you basically kind of went and watched how all the processes looked like, [00:52:00] uh, kind of how would you resolve them? Is it like one by one? Do [00:52:05] you solve them somehow in bulk, or do you use other things like, I don’t know, um, [00:52:10] to, to push it through to kind of to solve [00:52:15] these pain points because kind of just to talk with the call center. It’s not enough. [00:52:20] Probably. Yeah.
[00:52:20] Orkhan and Aykhan : Yeah, sure. Of course. Uh, you know, um, since we, [00:52:25] uh, as a team, we like to, I mean, think of ourselves and it’s [00:52:30] proven by our record that we’re very data driven and we’re very customer centric. So by [00:52:35] default, the way we keep it, it’s a different story. Okay? We have our own ways of doing that. [00:52:40] But, uh, one of the goal was to instill that culture, uh, in [00:52:45] the organization at every point. So what we would do is we [00:52:50] would, uh, manage the processes from the office. We would establish the [00:52:55] flow of data. We would establish the behavior of, you know, data [00:53:00] collection about reporting and stuff remotely. We would mostly [00:53:05] do that once we have the data. And we had issues that we couldn’t identify [00:53:10] why this data is, you know, this way or whatever. We would go into [00:53:15] more, uh, face to face mode, you know, because, uh, it, [00:53:20] it you you wouldn’t notice it. It can become just a, you know, regular meeting that [00:53:25] no one really takes, uh, serious. So it’s really important to always understand [00:53:30] why you’re going there. What’s your purpose and how will customer benefit from it? [00:53:35] And second, always explain why you’re there. I mean, by default We are [00:53:40] used to this. You know, as I said, we have that culture to the person that doesn’t have that culture, it’s [00:53:45] really important to always remind him this is because of the customer. If and [00:53:50] you can put it in very layman terms, you know, if the customer doesn’t pay, [00:53:55] it results in, you know, uh, whatever that person, whatever is important [00:54:00] to that person. I’m not, you know, saying that, but, uh, or more complicated, [00:54:05] you know, terms and explanation that will help people understand it.
[00:54:08] Egidijus: From you guys. So [00:54:10] you had this huge transformation. And I want [00:54:15] to talk a bit about money, you know, so did the [00:54:20] CVM and customer experience, uh, bring more money on the table or not? [00:54:25]
[00:54:25] Orkhan and Aykhan : You know, we wouldn’t talk about the money itself. We all understand that. The [00:54:30] bottom line is always there. It’s all about the money. But I would rather maybe [00:54:35] discuss how, uh, our Where functions collaborated together. You know, maybe [00:54:40] give an example like, uh, like [00:54:45] the way we set up work with Orkhan and his team was, uh, when I say [00:54:50] we is the products team that I managed and by team that, uh, every [00:54:55] new development within the journey, uh, will be discussed, uh, between [00:55:00] the team, within the team, uh, the core functions to understand if it’s [00:55:05] more on the side, just making the customer happy or [00:55:10] about more making, uh, bring, like, generating more value [00:55:15] and therefore more revenue, you know, uh, but some situations just, uh, [00:55:20] granted, just doing it, you know, at the moment, without understanding why it was [00:55:25] just a fire that needed to be put up. So one story that I remember was, uh, so [00:55:30] the billing cycle ends, the customer doesn’t pay, and, uh, therefore, [00:55:35] the internet is cut off. We don’t have automated payments at the time, [00:55:40] so this was a very major issue at the beginning of months. The [00:55:45] call center would be booming with calls. You know, we would get requests from all [00:55:50] possible touch points.
[00:55:51] Orkhan and Aykhan : So we said, okay, guys, this is a technical issue, but [00:55:55] it’s also an experience issue, a journey issue, you know. So we said we can’t change [00:56:00] the behavior of the customer if he or she doesn’t pay. We can’t make them pay. But [00:56:05] we can smooth out the pain, the friction that happens with this process. [00:56:10] So we said, okay, uh, how does he understand that he doesn’t [00:56:15] have internet? He tries to access that internet. So we, uh, targeted [00:56:20] that touchpoint, and we created a landing page, kind of a pop up, uh, [00:56:25] a push notification that the customer, when trying to access the internet, when he didn’t [00:56:30] pay or she didn’t pay, uh, window would pop up with all detailed [00:56:35] information on what’s happening, why it’s why this person is seeing this, and [00:56:40] ways to resolve that issue, which would be the payment of it. And we really did [00:56:45] a really nice feature that the customer could access the payment platforms within that, [00:56:50] uh, you know, traffic without even having the internet. And actually, not [00:56:55] a lot of even mobile providers have that, uh, you know, uh, that [00:57:00] functionality. It’s kind of a dilemma that you need internet to pay for the internet, but you [00:57:05] don’t have internet, so.
[00:57:07] Egidijus: So you didn’t have internet because [00:57:10] you didn’t pay. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. You know, it’s a loop that.
[00:57:13] Orkhan and Aykhan : It’s never ending. So, uh, [00:57:15] why I told the story was that we saw this opportunity as a CX [00:57:20] issue. I mean, we saw this at the CX issue. We had an issue. We fixed it. The friction was, [00:57:25] uh, smoothed out. Uh, the reduced cost in call center [00:57:30] showed it, you know, as a data, uh, and then, uh, it worked [00:57:35] as a resolver of a problem. But then we had a meeting with Orkhan and we said, okay, [00:57:40] we have a new touchpoint. Let’s let’s, uh, use it somehow for future [00:57:45] as a CVM. And yes, it was basically the new opportunity to add additional [00:57:50] channel to the CVM communication. And we, uh, [00:57:55] but let me say that we launched it yet, but, uh, we [00:58:00] added to the strategy and we are we will show the people the value that can [00:58:05] bring that such feature, uh, for this company, not only on the customer [00:58:10] experience level, but on the value level, the revenue generation [00:58:15] itself.
[00:58:16] Egidijus: So basically, uh, if you need to [00:58:20] kind of if you are late to pay, you can also be upgraded. Yeah.
[00:58:24] Orkhan and Aykhan : Of course, [00:58:25] as a punishment. Kidding. Of course. Kidding. [00:58:30] At least you know our website is not [00:58:35] popular in these days. So customers not only go to website and [00:58:40] check like what offers are there, etc. but they just don’t need it. [00:58:45] Like whichever is it’s fine for me for now. Like what is, uh [00:58:50] what was the proposed during the actual the connection actual [00:58:55] installation? It will be enough. But creating the additional point where can we, uh, [00:59:00] additional touch point, where can we show the existing offers? Where [00:59:05] can we get those, uh, sweet upsell opportunities, [00:59:10] uh, also affecting the customer itself on the experience [00:59:15] level?
[00:59:16] Egidijus: And which touchpoints would you say are most important [00:59:20] in your case? Is it like call center point of sale or telemarketing [00:59:25] or, uh.
[00:59:27] Orkhan and Aykhan : Um, for, uh, from, KC’s [00:59:30] perspective, I would say a customer doesn’t need. Ideally, [00:59:35] a customer doesn’t need to know the call center number. That means he [00:59:40] or she doesn’t have issues to contact. You know, ideally. But of course it also depends [00:59:45] on the part of the journey. I mean, if it’s a new client, it’s the first experience. [00:59:50] It’s the connection. It’s the first request. It’s the first onboarding process, [00:59:55] maybe first issue or first resolution of the issue. Uh, otherwise [01:00:00] it’s uh, then it becomes more of a, let’s say, a retention. Or if [01:00:05] it’s a CVM matter, it would be the calling. Yeah. Then the [01:00:10] the contact center or whoever does the, uh, the, the upgrade [01:00:15] calls to the customers. But, uh, if we talk about communication, it’s about [01:00:20] controlling the tone of voice and the frequency of contact. It’s very important not to bug [01:00:25] them a lot, you know? Uh, but rather than that, I would say it depends on the company’s [01:00:30] product itself. I mean, if it’s a digital product, I mean, it’s the [01:00:35] app or the website. If it’s more physical, it’s the physical experience. It’s the in-store [01:00:40] experience. I would say from CX standpoint, that’s that’s the way it is.
[01:00:44] Egidijus: Yeah. [01:00:45] And our kind from the sales perspective, where do you sell the most.
[01:00:50] Orkhan and Aykhan : From [01:00:50] the from the sales perspective also depends [01:00:55] on the company maturity level. So at for example, at my [01:01:00] point currently the targeted calls is very efficient. It’s [01:01:05] more efficient than let’s say from automated calls. But [01:01:10] also if there is some technical limitations are in place, like [01:01:15] I can contact my all of my customers with automated calls [01:01:20] and even offer something to them. But whatever happens next, if it’s [01:01:25] not technically, uh, like, uh, covered by the current [01:01:30] systems. There is no mean to, uh, to do it, of course, but, [01:01:35] uh, the overall, in my opinion, the whichever is, [01:01:40] uh, customers favorite, uh, customer should receive it by this [01:01:45] channel. So I saw the good experience in like more most of [01:01:50] the digital services where customers is being asked like, uh, [01:01:55] which channel do you prefer so we can contact you on. Like, I don’t want any [01:02:00] calls from myself to receive some upsell [01:02:05] offers or, uh, to be notified, like I need to pay for my, [01:02:10] uh, internet service, etc. on my call, but I would rather read [01:02:15] it from my email, for example. So basically, uh, approach [01:02:20] that each customer can choose its own [01:02:25] channel. It should should be the best one.
[01:02:28] Egidijus: So, uh, guys, you [01:02:30] went through an amazing journey from, like, launching CVM processes, customer [01:02:35] experience processes, participating in the process when the whole country was [01:02:40] covered with fiber internet. And it seems that you did a great job, [01:02:45] because even a minister calls you into the meeting and [01:02:50] says thank you. It’s a great job. You know, it sounds like a [01:02:55] really impressive story, but we need to start wrapping up. [01:03:00] And, uh, for all our guests, we ask a couple of wrap up [01:03:05] questions. So there will be for both of you guys. Uh, first of all, we [01:03:10] we always start from. What was the proudest moment in your career? So the the minister [01:03:15] moment is out now. It doesn’t count. Okay. [01:03:20] So, um, I can let’s start with you. [01:03:25]
[01:03:26] Orkhan and Aykhan : I would say the if you call it, let’s say highlight, [01:03:30] uh, it wasn’t like a single project or a moment. It was more about the [01:03:35] realization, uh, the shift in culture in, [01:03:40] in Aztelekom experience. It’s, uh, one day after like 2 or [01:03:45] 2 and a half years, I just realized that. And we had this conversations with Orkhan [01:03:50] very often that do you remember the way it was like we [01:03:55] were looking at some report and just, uh, you know, randomly stop and be like, do [01:04:00] you remember the text files? I don’t know, or do you remember something else? And I even get goosebumps [01:04:05] just saying it because it was very powerful moment that, uh, you don’t, uh, [01:04:10] you don’t you take it for granted. You think that’s the way it’s supposed to be, but when you can reflect [01:04:15] and see actually the product in front of you, that’s very powerful moment. I would [01:04:20] say that that’s the highlight of, uh, of of that feeling, uh, [01:04:25] from my side. Uh, the, uh, that was the [01:04:30] like, couple of years ago, uh, whenever I present some information [01:04:35] that everybody just looked at it and just, uh, [01:04:40] blindly agree with me. But two years ago, this, this one guy [01:04:45] started to challenge me. And coming back to what [01:04:50] Aykhan said, like, the culture is changing, like, uh, there is people [01:04:55] coming from here and there, like who, uh, who understand [01:05:00] the difference that this approach, what difference this approach makes. And [01:05:05] the guys that was challenging me started a real good [01:05:10] case where every data should be, every insight should be challenged. Like, do not [01:05:15] blindly, uh, believe every information that you are, uh, that you are [01:05:20] seeing, like you are watching.
[01:05:22] Egidijus: So you saw this data driven transformation basically [01:05:25] in action.
[01:05:26] Orkhan and Aykhan : With own hands, all by [01:05:30] own hands, with own eyes.
[01:05:33] Egidijus: Um, down [01:05:35] the road. I bet you had some, uh, uh, stories [01:05:40] from which you could learn. And, uh, not everything was only easy [01:05:45] path. Yeah. Could you share some of your experiences in this area? [01:05:50]
[01:05:52] Orkhan and Aykhan : Um, I would say the whole journey was really hard, [01:05:55] but it was really exciting and very fruitful as far as experience and emotions. [01:06:00] Uh, I once again, I don’t remember a specific case, but, uh, [01:06:05] but, uh, cumulatively speaking, uh, my lesson learned from [01:06:10] this situation was that you need to consider the culture of who you’re [01:06:15] facing, uh, consider their current state, uh, even though we had [01:06:20] a certain vision and we were going really, you know, aggressively towards building [01:06:25] that culture. Not everyone was at the same stage of understanding it, the perception [01:06:30] of it, etc. So I would say my lesson learned was you [01:06:35] need to really consider who you’re facing and consider their situation [01:06:40] because your, your success is affected, uh, by that condition. [01:06:45] You know, like the situation where we spoke about MPs just as [01:06:50] if it’s normal, but people in the audience didn’t really understand what MPs was, you know, situations [01:06:55] like thing. I think before looking at the customer journey, you first [01:07:00] to need to look at the internal one within the organization. And [01:07:05] on my side, uh, the lesson learned was mostly [01:07:10] about the complication of existing processes. Uh, [01:07:15] so we had A really good success [01:07:20] in upselling those customers with just basic data and very basic [01:07:25] offer. And but before that, we tried to do it [01:07:30] like in our complicated, uh, manner. Uh, mainly [01:07:35] we, uh, did, uh, a lot of calculations before, [01:07:40] before that to, uh, to at least try to, uh, [01:07:45] offer the right people the right offer. But we’re [01:07:50] just over complicated things where you can technically not, [01:07:55] uh, support it. So the making things easier, making [01:08:00] things simpler is my lesson learned from all of that. Because the [01:08:05] simpler thing was working better than most of complicated [01:08:10] things.
[01:08:14] Egidijus: And, uh, [01:08:15] guys, how do you learn how? How would you inspire [01:08:20] others to learn? What are your learning sources in this [01:08:25] journey?
[01:08:27] Orkhan and Aykhan : Um, I used to read books. I mean, [01:08:30] the self, you know, self improvement books and etc. but I noticed [01:08:35] that for the last, let’s say, 7 or 10 years, I stopped doing that. Uh, in, [01:08:40] in, in my field, I would say because we’re very, uh, feedback [01:08:45] and customer centric. I mean, the work is built [01:08:50] around customer. I would say staying close to reality and actuality is the key. [01:08:55] Uh, talk to the customers, talk to the stakeholders within the [01:09:00] organization, the front lines, the call centers, the branches. Hear them out. [01:09:05] Really hear them out. That would be the best way to learn how to better serve your [01:09:10] customer. Uh, but, uh, as far as, uh, staying, like, [01:09:15] in a good condition as a as a professional. Just stay on the trends. [01:09:20] Uh, be part of, uh, groups, conferences [01:09:25] and etc.. That’s that’s what I try to do a lot. And, uh, I mean, you can [01:09:30] read textbooks from time to time. It’s just it changes so, so often, so fast [01:09:35] that they can be outdated, really. And there’s a lot of opinions. So it’s really, really [01:09:40] important, I think, to stick to your own opinion, which is based off of [01:09:45] your real experience. I just sit and thought that every time [01:09:50] I improved myself where that was, where when I put myself [01:09:55] in uncomfortable situation, like where I go technical, where I have no technical [01:10:00] skills, where I go more analytical, where I have no such thing in order. [01:10:05] So, uh, maybe, uh, putting yourself in more difficult situations [01:10:10] is also shaping your, uh, your skills in a positive manner.
[01:10:16] Egidijus: I [01:10:15] think this is a very wise advice, [01:10:20] you know. Uh, stay close to your customer and go uncomfortable. [01:10:25] Yeah. And they have, uh, one last question for both of [01:10:30] you. So my mission is to make customer value management field famous. So what [01:10:35] would be your advice on, uh, doing this?
[01:10:39] Orkhan and Aykhan : I think I’ll [01:10:40] go first because I want to finish on that because he’s more, uh, you know, close to [01:10:45] that, uh, arena. Uh, I would say, uh, whatever you’re doing is already a [01:10:50] big, uh, step. I know you have a very, uh, maybe not a mass [01:10:55] audience, but I see it’s very topic focused, which is really nice. And [01:11:00] I think, uh, activities like this helps a lot to spread around what others are doing, [01:11:05] what experiences they are. Because, uh, you’re more focused about real stories and real [01:11:10] experiences. This is very crucial to not having, you know, just [01:11:15] a regular podcast with people talking whatever you can access online. We’re actually [01:11:20] talking about real stories that we wouldn’t share anywhere else. So I think the biggest thing [01:11:25] is about creating these platforms like you did. I [01:11:30] agree with like you, you need you need platforms. You need [01:11:35] some kind of, uh, place where you can share your experiences. [01:11:40] You can. But what, uh, what are [01:11:45] you doing is very, very great. Has very great, uh, impact on [01:11:50] the, the whole, uh, the whole, uh, [01:11:55] the whole CVM market because, uh, I, uh, [01:12:00] I was, I was talking with Aiden, who I’m [01:12:05] working with, who is my CVM guy.
[01:12:07] Orkhan and Aykhan : Uh, he was [01:12:10] talking about, Like, did you see the did you read the CVM book book? That it [01:12:15] is, it is very great. I, I like uh, I, [01:12:20] I learned a lot from it. It has very good points [01:12:25] like check it out. And that’s where I learned about this platform. So, uh, [01:12:30] book the book for example. Like this is a simple case, but it’s [01:12:35] very impactful also because it has a its own it has its [01:12:40] own voice. Uh, because making it public make it [01:12:45] make make makes it better to, uh, better to understand [01:12:50] not only from for the CVM, uh, related guys, but [01:12:55] the whole audience, because, uh, most of the functions [01:13:00] inside the single standard company has some, uh, [01:13:05] correlation with CVM because they are either dependent depended on it, or [01:13:10] they can work together and bring more value. And [01:13:15] like we shared an example with Icahn. So the KCS [01:13:20] and CVM working together brings very good [01:13:25] value. And that can be for all the functions.
[01:13:31] Egidijus: So [01:13:30] thank you guys. Thank you for sharing your really [01:13:35] unique, uh, story. A challenging one and [01:13:40] inspiring one at the same time. So thank [01:13:45] you for for joining us.
[01:13:47] Orkhan and Aykhan : Thank you. Thank you for having us. Thank you for inviting [01:13:50] us. Nice to remember those things. Yeah.
[01:13:54] Exacaster: CVM Stories [01:13:55] is produced by Exacaster. We help companies take their customer value management to the next level. [01:14:00] To stay updated on our latest episodes, subscribe to the podcast or sign up for an [01:14:05] email newsletter at exacaster.com/cvmstories
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