How to Build a Customer-Centric and Profit-Driven Culture

[00:00:00] Orkhan and Aykhan : Minister, just look at me. Says, thank you guys for your work. Nobody will listen to you [00:00:05] if you don’t back up your decisions or backed up your analysis. Real data. I’m [00:00:10] not talking about voice of customer. There wasn’t even a sound of customer.

[00:00:14] Exacaster: Welcome to CVM [00:00:15] Stories, the podcast on customer value management. Together, we explore how companies [00:00:20] can be more successful and the customers happier through the use of latest customer value management techniques. [00:00:25] Learn key commercial and analytical insights from telecoms, retail, finance [00:00:30] and other industries that drive CVM forward.

[00:00:33] Egidijus: Hi, I am Egidijus, your [00:00:35] host. Today we have a special episode. We will be having two guests, [00:00:40] Orkhan Alipashayev and Aykhan Baylarov. [00:00:45] They will share a story about a customer experience transformation [00:00:50] in Aztelekom. They will give away their secrets on how to build [00:00:55] a customer centric mindset and a profit centered culture in a large [00:01:00] organization from scratch. It’s a very interesting story. So let’s get [00:01:05] started. Orkhan, Aykhan, thank you for joining me [00:01:10] today. This is a very special episode because we have two [00:01:15] guests instead of usually having one. And we have a very exciting, [00:01:20] uh, episode about the story of how to transform an [00:01:25] organization which is partly state owned, from having zero [00:01:30] CVM processes into achieving customer centric perspective [00:01:35] and profit centered culture. So I am not [00:01:40] sure what this means exactly, but I hope that I can can. Can [00:01:45] you explain us a bit more about your story?

[00:01:47] Orkhan and Aykhan : First of all, thank you for having us. We’re really [00:01:50] excited to have this conversation. Uh, when preparing for this interview, [00:01:55] we had a conversation with Orkhan that, hey, let’s do a storytelling session, kind of, [00:02:00] because we like to tell the stories, and it’s important to us that it’s always, uh, it [00:02:05] has the part that actually happened because we don’t like theory, we like practice, we [00:02:10] like experience. Uh, the story is really about perseverance. Uh, why [00:02:15] this word really describes this situation. Because, uh, we believe that [00:02:20] CX and CVM all have a certain, uh, stage at any [00:02:25] organization where it’s mature enough to be existent. You know, um, [00:02:30] and this story is about the beginning, the building, the foundation. It’s about persevering [00:02:35] through, uh, misdirected legacy that we faced a lot. It’s [00:02:40] about fighting resistance and taking on challenges that we faced along the way.

[00:02:46] Egidijus: Um, [00:02:45] so I am super excited to, to go into that story. [00:02:50] But before we dive deep into it, uh, [00:02:55] Aykhan and Orkhan. Could you, uh, tell [00:03:00] a bit about yourself? What is what was your career path and what are you guys doing. [00:03:05]

[00:03:06] Orkhan and Aykhan : For the past, uh, eight, 8 to 9 years? I [00:03:10] was, uh, in telco business. First I started in mobile. [00:03:15] I worked as product specialist, then I switched a little bit, [00:03:20] worked like a as project manager. Then I switched to the business intelligence. Like [00:03:25] some kind of transformation in myself happened while I was [00:03:30] doing my project manager tasks. And at that time, [00:03:35] uh, my future manager looked at me and saw the potential I have in terms [00:03:40] of, uh, analytics mindset. So for the past four years, [00:03:45] uh, I worked at Aztelekom and Baktelecom together with Aykhan we built [00:03:50] the business intelligence team from scratch. And now I’m also, launched [00:03:55] the activities in the company and I became [00:04:00] the head of BA and CVM.

[00:04:04] Egidijus: So [00:04:05] it seems that Orkhan, you have moved through many different steps in organization, which [00:04:10] is exactly what is needed for a very cross-functional CVM role.

[00:04:16] Orkhan and Aykhan : Yes, [00:04:15] the basically story will tell [00:04:20] you. Our story will tell you how we moved through the structure in the past [00:04:25] this for four years.

[00:04:27] Egidijus: So I can how about you? What [00:04:30] was your journey?

[00:04:31] Orkhan and Aykhan : I see myself as a CX and service transformation leader and [00:04:35] I have extensive background in different industries like telco is [00:04:40] one of the biggest one. I have experience in banking, logistics and even government. [00:04:45] Um, currently I’m providing strategic and operational [00:04:50] CX services through a private practice called Dominant Experience. But up [00:04:55] until last year I was part of the team with Orkhan [00:05:00] at Aztelekom and I was leading the customer centered mindset change at [00:05:05] that organization. Uh, and uh, we actually know each other with [00:05:10] Orkhan for I’d say 5 or 6 years. Yeah, something like that. Yeah. [00:05:15]

[00:05:16] Egidijus: Um, okay. Um, [00:05:20] so when we think about. [00:05:25] Customer experience and customer value management, [00:05:30] for me, these two fields are very kind [00:05:35] of overlapping. And I personally don’t have a [00:05:40] very clear distinction because kind of both of them are cross-functional. Both of [00:05:45] them impact customer through many different pathways. Uh, [00:05:50] how do you guys The define your responsibilities and how do you define [00:05:55] this overlap together?

[00:05:57] Orkhan and Aykhan : If I may take this part for the CX [00:06:00] part, um, there’s many definitions about customer experience that are generally [00:06:05] accepted or even, uh, you know, developed. But uh, the one I [00:06:10] really like is CX is an internal customer reaction that a customer has [00:06:15] with your business. Uh, simply said as that, uh, but essentially it’s [00:06:20] the entire journey that this customer has with your business. Uh, and examples [00:06:25] can range from opening a packaging box. It’s about the usability of your website. It’s [00:06:30] about the call center, a tone of voice and many more examples. But some [00:06:35] it’s really what, uh, customer feels internally his internal [00:06:40] reaction to your business. Um, if we talk about functions [00:06:45] in the organization who manages customer experience, uh, there’s Several [00:06:50] different definitions for that as well. But I really like the customer experience [00:06:55] management function, which essentially, uh, out this journey and manages [00:07:00] it uh, at the at all the touch points. Okay. So, [00:07:05] um, if, if there’s any experience, uh, friction a customer has, this, [00:07:10] uh, function would be responsible for identifying it. Uh, it’s like an engine. [00:07:15] If an engine doesn’t work, first you have to see why it’s not working and pinpoint the, uh, [00:07:20] the friction. So this is really how I look at it as far as structure goes, [00:07:25] uh, it varies from organization to organization. Some companies [00:07:30] have a dedicated function called customer experience management. Uh, usually it’s organizations [00:07:35] that already have a business process, uh, in place. They have [00:07:40] the staffed teams. Uh, the core services are almost perfectly, [00:07:45] you know, uh, the gears. The gears are not, uh, stock. [00:07:50] They’re working. Uh, others have it as a project or a program. I see a lot of companies [00:07:55] just having it as a program, uh, which combines, uh, mobilizing [00:08:00] all the teams and having, let’s say, representatives from other streams.

[00:08:04] Orkhan and Aykhan : And [00:08:05] I think the most common what I see and what we experienced at Aztelekom was having a CX champion, [00:08:10] uh, it’s an imaginary position. It’s not really written in [00:08:15] your resume, even, but, uh, how I know it, I was the I believe I was the [00:08:20] sixth champion at Aztelekom. Uh, at first we didn’t really have, uh, like [00:08:25] I say, this function, but someone had to own the experience, you know, be responsible [00:08:30] for the experience. And I believe that I, due to my position at the time, was responsible [00:08:35] for it because I was, uh, factually, I was head of marketing, [00:08:40] which spanned, uh, products as a main core business side, [00:08:45] uh, marketing communications and by at the time. So it’s all about, [00:08:50] uh, having, uh, the seat at the table at the decision making [00:08:55] table, uh, because if you can make any impact, you can really manage this experience. [00:09:00] So this is how I would say the industry sees it and how we experienced [00:09:05] it at Aztelekom during our tenure there. For [00:09:10] CVM part, uh, I will I won’t tell you the, uh, [00:09:15] by by the book definitions. I know you, your audience or you already know that. I’m [00:09:20] guessing that, uh, but for us Aztelekom, it [00:09:25] was like a step in the business. Uh, in the business maturity, [00:09:30] uh, we did a very large project where we expanded [00:09:35] our coverage for our services. And, uh, every time when you do that, [00:09:40] you, uh, you will literally stuck at the part where you can [00:09:45] you cannot do acquisitions anymore and you should focus [00:09:50] on retention and value increase. That’s [00:09:55] that’s where our CVM, uh, defines in our company in Az [00:10:00]telekom.

[00:10:02] Egidijus: Um, so, uh, now I have [00:10:05] one heartbreaking question for you guys. So, uh, if customer, [00:10:10] uh, gets the offer that they don’t like. So who [00:10:15] is to blame? Who is it to blame? Because the there’s a bad experience. Is [00:10:20] it experience or is it CVM? And, uh, how do you work together?

[00:10:24] Orkhan and Aykhan : Yes, [00:10:25] it is bad experience, but created by CVM. So CVM is responsible [00:10:30] for that. I believe it’s a team effort. I mean, we understand that in corporate [00:10:35] environment there are silos. We would also like to talk about that later. But, [00:10:40] uh, it’s all about the team and how you work together. Because the way we set up our work [00:10:45] with Orkhan at the time was that we would, uh, handle all customer [00:10:50] complaints together. Uh, yes. At the end of the day, it is the responsibility [00:10:55] and scope of certain functions within the organization. But just having those sessions, [00:11:00] uh, for, uh, not regular, you know, uh, complaints [00:11:05] or let’s say they did some action on their part and then the call center gets, [00:11:10] uh, the feedback, uh, we would always go to the core, try to do the [00:11:15] core analysis and see what’s really wrong and try to solve it together, because, [00:11:20] uh, if you have that silo mentality, you just keep shooting stuff at [00:11:25] each other. Either it’s emails or real, you know, hatchets. I don’t know if other organizations [00:11:30] have that practice.

[00:11:32] Egidijus: It’s always good to have somebody somebody to blame, you know? Yeah. [00:11:35]

[00:11:36] Orkhan and Aykhan : We always said we we were to blame. So, [00:11:40] uh.

[00:11:43] Egidijus: Um, I know [00:11:45] that, uh, in your organization, uh, you went from [00:11:50] zero CVM and customer experience processes to this [00:11:55] large transformation. So how did you decide, guys, to make [00:12:00] this step? You know, from nothing to best in in [00:12:05] the world type of thing.

[00:12:08] Orkhan and Aykhan : Um, I can start [00:12:10] that’s the for the very first years, the [00:12:15] most, most pain. Uh, I had the most pain in our team because, [00:12:20] uh, I had to work with legacy systems. So, uh, we had [00:12:25] to deal with very, very old, very outdated, and. No, [00:12:30] no, no more, uh, supported OSS [00:12:35] and BSS system. And, uh, first of all, we we [00:12:40] tried just to get the right figures for the business because business KPIs was [00:12:45] not measured. So we are talking like from complete zero, not from like [00:12:50] some stage. There was no stage, there was zero. So yeah. [00:12:55] Apart from that we we [00:13:00] had like culture in the company that is not aligning [00:13:05] its decision on based on data. So we had to, [00:13:10] uh, educate people by data storytelling. That [00:13:15] data is good. You need data. You have to own it. You have to. Shape [00:13:20] your decisions based on that. As far as, uh, [00:13:25] not having, uh, management of CX, I would say that, uh, [00:13:30] any organization, uh, has to have a separate function if the [00:13:35] internal business processes are at a mature level and their [00:13:40] so-called, uh, terminology as jobs to be done in customer experience. Uh, [00:13:45] I really believe that if the company didn’t define their jobs to be done, they can [00:13:50] really start, uh, having it as a function. So that would be [00:13:55] the main two criterias for any organization to have, uh, to achieve [00:14:00] in order to make this function relevant. Uh, a function that would focus on CX, [00:14:05] um, for CVM part, the relevance comes [00:14:10] from the stage that you have your business in. Like for in our in our case, [00:14:15] as I said, uh, as I [00:14:20] already said, we have like acquisition part done and we’re on the stage of the retention [00:14:25] strategies and value increase strategies. That’s where CVM [00:14:30] becomes very relevant in, uh, for for fixed business, [00:14:35] at least because you always have some fixed, uh, The coverage that you need to [00:14:40] expand or you plan to expand, or you already achieved the, uh, [00:14:45] the level where you can go any further. Uh, that’s the way CVM [00:14:50] becomes relevant, too, because you have no you have nothing to increase value from. [00:14:55]

[00:14:56] Egidijus: And you, um, you [00:15:00] mentioned that, um, in the beginning, you had nothing. Uh, [00:15:05] could you explain what a nothing means to us?

[00:15:11] Orkhan and Aykhan : Uh, [00:15:10] I didn’t believe it myself. As people [00:15:15] say, you you should see with your own eyes. So there was, like, [00:15:20] very outdated legacy system that was built in late [00:15:25] 80s, I think 80s or maybe even 90s, uh, for maintaining [00:15:30] the copper infrastructure. And, uh, I always when [00:15:35] people ask me like, uh, what was really the problem? Like, you’re [00:15:40] currently using this system. I also explained it like in Harry Potter, there [00:15:45] was Ron Weasley’s house, like it was a small house, and then it [00:15:50] was built upwards and it was not stable. It had [00:15:55] many problems and they always correcting it. So I had the same issue, [00:16:00] like I had a very small, uh, legacy system that was not supported [00:16:05] by anything, even to you can’t access it. Like to access [00:16:10] it, you need to emulate the emulation of the terminal that [00:16:15] can access this system. So that’s why, uh, we not [00:16:20] we like the, the company who was maintaining the this legacy [00:16:25] system had to build interfaces around that and build another interfaces [00:16:30] on top of those interfaces just to get the data from this. You. [00:16:35] Uh, I can say I could not get even daily. [00:16:40] For example, you can only do it monthly because most of the subscriptions [00:16:45] are monthly based. And once in a month, this legacy system [00:16:50] probably built on like old cards. And that [00:16:55] worked on that environment. It only do the calculations once a [00:17:00] month, so once a month it does all the calculation needed and you get [00:17:05] the result, like, uh, which customer paid, which customer is not paid, which [00:17:10] has which subscription, etc.. And before I saw [00:17:15] it with my own eyes, I was not like believing people who told [00:17:20] me told me about it. Uh.

[00:17:23] Egidijus: So how could you tell, for example, [00:17:25] how many customers do you have?

[00:17:28] Orkhan and Aykhan : I first [00:17:30] of all, my my first problem was like, let’s define the customer. [00:17:35] What? What customer means? Uh, several. We had several departments, from [00:17:40] the technical to even the human resources. Uh, whoever says [00:17:45] customer, they mean different things. Someone means some description. Someone [00:17:50] means the one home address. Someone means the physical person. Uh, the first [00:17:55] I tried to settle the definition of the customers, which we settled at one home address, [00:18:00] one, let’s say apartment. In order to count the customers, we had to count [00:18:05] like physical lines. Uh, physical lines, meaning the, uh, current [00:18:10] landline connection to to the customers. And, uh, on [00:18:15] top of that connection, whenever we give also the internet services, that’s [00:18:20] where we understood that the customer had also internet as well. [00:18:25] And, uh, basically by counting the payments [00:18:30] for the landline system and filtering out the ones who is not paying for the [00:18:35] internet services. We count our customers.

[00:18:42] Egidijus: Okay, [00:18:40] this sounds very good. A [00:18:45] good start. So where are you now? It’s [00:18:50] like, did you bypass this barrier already?

[00:18:55] Orkhan and Aykhan : Yeah, [00:18:55] the barriers are still there. I just build it like a maze [00:19:00] around those barriers. We just, uh, we are, uh, trying [00:19:05] to change our BSS system, and we have ongoing project [00:19:10] which is going for at least three years, and we are planning to finish it soon. [00:19:15] But until this day, we had to do something to work as is in [00:19:20] this kind of environment. We set up the, uh, like extraction [00:19:25] of the raw data. And we also [00:19:30] have like several technical buildings, which is managing the internet service [00:19:35] separately. The other service also is separately. We gathering [00:19:40] the all the data sources and through some automation that [00:19:45] we built on both Python and R, we are calculating our uh [00:19:50] data for analysis. So we also we went from completely nothing [00:19:55] and like nowhere to get the data to, uh, get [00:20:00] stable daily extractions from all the systems and all converted [00:20:05] into, uh, normal readable format that can every, [00:20:10] every team can use. We also have like automated reports that [00:20:15] were we were not even dream about back in the days. But [00:20:20] we all get there through the hard manual work because, uh, [00:20:25] how how you you cannot change [00:20:30] the BSS system. At least you should adapt to it. Adapt to the reality [00:20:35] that you are currently.

[00:20:37] Egidijus: So you, uh, you had a pretty big [00:20:40] transformation. Yes. So going from one one monthly, [00:20:45] some, I don’t know txt extracts to something like, uh, a functional [00:20:50] CVM team. Could you describe a bit more this process?

[00:20:55] Orkhan and Aykhan : Yeah. [00:20:55] So, uh, one of our issues was the culture [00:21:00] in the company that is not data driven. So we tried to to show [00:21:05] people that data storytelling in very high transformable, [00:21:10] uh, environment is very, very important thing because, no, [00:21:15] nobody will listen to you if you don’t backed up your decisions or backed [00:21:20] up your analysis. Real data. And I understand those people, because if [00:21:25] you don’t have data on hands, you have to like, I don’t know, they improvised [00:21:30] or something, but, uh, you need to have it in place. I [00:21:35] can tell you an example where, like, we, uh, analyzed some, [00:21:40] uh, technical data from the guys from other department, [00:21:45] and the technical data they had on hand was, uh, very dirty. [00:21:50] Like, people was, uh, struggling to gather this data, and he [00:21:55] don’t want to do it, uh, overall, because, uh, by [00:22:00] by this time, he he was managing his job without it. But [00:22:05] we showed him the like there is a there is an issue. You will not see it. And, [00:22:10] uh, we basically in the rollout, you have very big [00:22:15] plans to, uh, buy the every materials. How many how [00:22:20] many items do you need for each, for example, area that you will go [00:22:25] and build your infrastructure..

[00:22:27] Orkhan and Aykhan : So we try to analyze that [00:22:30] data to see which areas are at which stages. Because the work [00:22:35] was, uh, was done, uh, very chaotically. But if [00:22:40] you don’t know where you are, then you cannot estimate like where some areas when [00:22:45] you should start, for example, acquisition. As simple as that. So we showed the [00:22:50] data. We took the data as, as is from the guys. We showed [00:22:55] them the issues. Basically, when you see the issue, you should [00:23:00] try to fix it, try to understand why the issue is there. You need [00:23:05] to fix your data. But, uh, when, when [00:23:10] no one wants to listen you I that my solution was to present it as [00:23:15] is. I understood that issue was there, but I make it like a funny joke. [00:23:20] And, uh, after that, people start taking the They [00:23:25] are very seriously in their team. They saw the things that they will never solve without those [00:23:30] data. So basically the transformation that we’ve done I [00:23:35] think was significant just by small part of that. And the [00:23:40] one thing also helped us was empowerment. So we had [00:23:45] the ongoing support from the consultancy team that [00:23:50] was also empowering them to do it.

[00:23:54] Egidijus: Okay. [00:23:55] And what was the role of basically consulting team? Is [00:24:00] it like did they do the job or did they help you somehow or other. [00:24:05]

[00:24:07] Orkhan and Aykhan : So basically consultancy team was [00:24:10] us. So the exact thing that we saw and what the exact thing that we want. [00:24:15] And just in that case we basically used [00:24:20] their. Authority to, uh, [00:24:25] to make the changes that we need to be done. As [00:24:30] as an example. Uh, so we we did a [00:24:35] really big project online Azerbaijan project, and we had to report the [00:24:40] progress that we are making because everyone knows that project is ongoing, but [00:24:45] no one knows where it’s going and where where do we stand? So with the help of, uh, [00:24:50] consultancy, we built a really good, uh, really insightful report [00:24:55] that showed the progress about the ongoing project and where [00:25:00] we are. And at those time.

[00:25:03] Egidijus: So we understood how, uh, [00:25:05] the CVM piece was born, and [00:25:10] I can, can can you tell us a bit about how the customer [00:25:15] experience piece, uh, appeared?

[00:25:18] Orkhan and Aykhan : Mhm. Yeah. It’s [00:25:20] actually not not much of a different story. The first time we [00:25:25] arrived at the, you know, at the company. Uh, what I [00:25:30] really like to do is do mystery shopping. Uh, the first day when I [00:25:35] start working somewhere. So that’s what I did. I wasn’t even let in the the [00:25:40] the branch because I came too early. Apparently, I wasn’t let in to the [00:25:45] branch. And then I had to, you know, show who I was and stuff like that and let in. So let’s [00:25:50] not go into that detail, but that kind of shows you the culture there. But, uh, it’s, [00:25:55] uh, there were no surveys, no, no feedback mechanisms. I’m not talking [00:26:00] about voice of customer. There wasn’t even a sound of customer, you know, uh, and [00:26:05] the the mindset was kind of blaming the customer. You know, the customer was at [00:26:10] fault, uh, at most cases, you know, quote unquote. But, uh, [00:26:15] that’s where we started. We ended up, uh, at having a dedicated [00:26:20] Department renamed and called Customer Experience [00:26:25] Management. We created a unit called Customer Success to help with the onboarding process. [00:26:30] We do. They still do, uh, extensive [00:26:35] competitive research. They do an NPS Net Promoter score, they do, uh, [00:26:40] CSat, the customer satisfaction surveys. And it’s all done on a very frequent [00:26:45] basis, which gives you visibility, uh, versus like or how I was [00:26:50] saying we would see the data only once a month. Same with the feedback. Uh, [00:26:55] we didn’t see any data. Then it started doing, uh, several times a year, and eventually [00:27:00] it came to a more, uh, a more frequent basis.

[00:27:04] Orkhan and Aykhan : But, [00:27:05] uh, there were several, I think, uh, main criterias [00:27:10] that, uh, were the cause of our success for setting up the CX culture. [00:27:15] Uh, one of them, I wouldn’t say it’s the first one, but one of them is the team. [00:27:20] Once again, if you didn’t identify why you’re doing this job like [00:27:25] what your product is, if you don’t have ownership of your systems and business processes, you can’t really [00:27:30] talk about any customer experience, you know, because you didn’t provide the core value. [00:27:35] So I believe that one of the reasons we achieved that success was having [00:27:40] an established and fully staffed team who owned the product, who owned the process, who owned [00:27:45] in a good way, the customer. So there was always a person responsible for, [00:27:50] uh, any, uh, uncertainties or any unusual cases. Um, [00:27:55] another was the top down approach. Uh, if if there’s no support [00:28:00] and empowerment from the management, uh, it wouldn’t be possible. So I would say [00:28:05] that strategically speaking and management speaking, it’s very important that management also [00:28:10] talks about CX in the meetings and etc.. Uh, another case was about the metrics. [00:28:15] I mean, uh, there are 3 or 4 main metrics in CGH, and [00:28:20] we managed to get NPS and CSat as one of the main [00:28:25] KPIs in the yearly performance reviews and in targets for [00:28:30] all different functions, even not commonly believed to be relevant [00:28:35] to CGH, but that really helped us culture wise. Uh, it’s [00:28:40] about, uh, the perseverance part really comes in handy here. [00:28:45] Uh, we had a lot of moments where we had situations where we saw that [00:28:50] system was against us.

[00:28:51] Orkhan and Aykhan : We are this new guys that came in with a customer [00:28:55] centric mindset, but we are faced with this old, uh, resistant [00:29:00] legacy that’s not believing, uh, it wasn’t either commercially [00:29:05] driven or, uh, data driven or customer centric, you know, so we [00:29:10] really had a challenge to fix all of that. So it was really fighting all [00:29:15] these Fights, small fights, big battles. It was putting out [00:29:20] fires. Uh, all all in, uh, like as a result, doing [00:29:25] all that consistently and, uh, doing it as a team because you couldn’t [00:29:30] fight this battle alone. It was Orkhan’s team. It was other teams that [00:29:35] also, uh, mobilized under one umbrella, under one vision [00:29:40] to achieve that. But, uh, funny story, I’m talking about [00:29:45] this. But really coming back to the storyline the first time we, uh. So, [00:29:50] so we we had this first survey. We were happy. Okay, we got some data going in. It [00:29:55] took some time to really, uh, actually, you know, uh, to [00:30:00] synthesize the, uh, data that came in because us, we [00:30:05] had experience with this data. We know what this data means, but we knew that the audience, [00:30:10] uh, I mean, I just told you about the culture, you know, but we still said, okay, [00:30:15] we will go with the full scale presentation. We’ll do a brief presentation about [00:30:20] why we need NPS and CSat. So we started the presentation. We were already [00:30:25] into, you know, the promoters and detractors, uh, and the CEO at the time, [00:30:30] he was like, okay, wait a moment.

[00:30:32] Orkhan and Aykhan : Do you? And he like, faced the whole audience. And he’s like, [00:30:35] do you even understand what’s going on? And of course, no one said no. But we [00:30:40] really felt that in the room. It was tension and also uncertainty of, okay, [00:30:45] what is this? Do I need to know this or am I part of this? So he really stopped us and said, [00:30:50] guys, go deep dive on the definition. Why we need NPS, how do you use [00:30:55] to improve your business and etc.. So we spend about half an hour just talking about what [00:31:00] NPS was, why we needed it, and uh, really, truly we felt [00:31:05] that the room got softer, the room got more friendly. You know, we got some [00:31:10] people already engaging in the presentation. Uh, baby steps. [00:31:15] But eventually we became, uh, like a more, uh, engaged as a [00:31:20] team, as a more broad team engaged into getting these results. Like, there are even [00:31:25] cases where, uh, we just did the presentation, uh, a regular presentation. [00:31:30] Uh, imagine that the whole branches from the whole country, they all join, [00:31:35] uh, like, online meeting, and we do a high level presentation because in addition [00:31:40] to the actual report, we the goal was to improve the NPS through, uh, generating [00:31:45] an action plan. So we would identify the the pain points. The pain points [00:31:50] were always at branches, at touch points, either, uh, the [00:31:55] customer facing, you know, uh, door to door [00:32:00] team, sales team, I don’t know, contact center or it was the branches. So what [00:32:05] we, uh, focused a lot on was, uh.

[00:32:07] Egidijus: Could you share some of the pain points so that we [00:32:10] would better visualize them?

[00:32:12] Orkhan and Aykhan : The pain points would be the [00:32:15] detractors would always complain about the speed, quality, or quality in general. Not [00:32:20] a lot of people complained about prices, so it was mostly about the quality of the product. [00:32:25] And uh, one of the biggest, uh, let’s say example of [00:32:30] this resistance was most of the people at branches were technical guys, you know, [00:32:35] and when you talked about the quality of network, it would take, they would take it personally, you know, so [00:32:40] we would always be, uh, received as this, you know, the guys from headquarters coming [00:32:45] in and just telling us something, you know, and we always explained that this is just data. [00:32:50] Yes. It’s kind of indicative because it’s subjective. It’s the, uh, it’s the [00:32:55] perception of person. You know, it’s a general perception of [00:33:00] customer. At the point of the survey, we explained that as well. And, uh, they [00:33:05] would always say, I have no issues with my technical side. My network is going good. [00:33:10] They would even pull up some reports on technical side, and we would always kind of bring [00:33:15] them back that, hey, the customer doesn’t understand this. They don’t understand [00:33:20] how the network works. They just see at their home, uh, at the last mile, [00:33:25] that how uh, in general during, let’s say one month or several [00:33:30] months, how they feel about our product. By doing that, [00:33:35] we kind of explained and helped them to, uh, look at the issue from a customer [00:33:40] lens. You know, as, as a customer. That really helped. But mostly it was [00:33:45] issues like that, people complaining about quality. But the funny [00:33:50] side is and kind of interesting side. The promoters were also saying [00:33:55] they liked the service because of the quality, you know. So [00:34:00] uh, for each detractor, we would have at least several, uh, promoters who would say we [00:34:05] like the quality. It’s stable, it’s fast. Uh, And I mean, even the data [00:34:10] now shows that it’s really a stable service. In general.

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[00:34:31] Egidijus: As this is such a huge transformation, could you tell [00:34:35] us a bit about your, let’s say, early quick wins or early wins [00:34:40] in the process of kind of how you were able to mobilize [00:34:45] these teams? Because in the very beginning, I understand that this is [00:34:50] kind of a tough learning curve, but did you did you [00:34:55] get any kind of, I don’t know, thumbs up in the, in the beginning from, I don’t [00:35:00] know, your management or whatever.

[00:35:04] Orkhan and Aykhan : Um, I [00:35:05] can cover the one part of it, maybe. But when [00:35:10] we always did something, we had a certain standard. That standard came from our previous [00:35:15] experience working in either other telco companies or other companies. So I [00:35:20] would generally say that everything that we did, we weren’t completely satisfied [00:35:25] with it, you know? To us, it was okay. We did it. It could be better. So [00:35:30] the only way to understand how it was, uh, assessed by others [00:35:35] would see their reaction. So there’s actually one, uh, a truly powerful [00:35:40] empowerment moment that I would like Orkhan to tell about how, uh, [00:35:45] his work and his team’s work, actually, uh, was shown [00:35:50] the empowerment was shown in action. So if Orkhan would tell that story. Yeah, yeah, I will tell [00:35:55] that story. That actually helped us not only to receive [00:36:00] this empowerment, but, uh, also make people trust to to [00:36:05] the data, and at least if the data comes from our team, they should [00:36:10] trust it because we are checking and double checking it, etc.. So as I already told [00:36:15] you, we had like very big report about the progress of [00:36:20] our largest project online, Azerbaijan, and we [00:36:25] finished the very huge analytical work [00:36:30] on the data that we had that was gathered manually. [00:36:35]

[00:36:35] Orkhan and Aykhan : Even some data was by written in the document. We took it, [00:36:40] some data was uh, like, uh, checked on the site [00:36:45] itself. Uh, we, uh, our technical team did a great job [00:36:50] to collect all the data that, uh, should, should have been there, but never was. [00:36:55] And we built a very large, uh, presentation and, uh, uh, [00:37:00] the presentation, we showed that dashboard, Uh the [00:37:05] dashboard was interactive report about the all the areas [00:37:10] that we are currently working at. It was even dividing it by the [00:37:15] progress stages and showing the exact number of households, etc.. [00:37:20] So report is not so great, but considering that we have lost [00:37:25] nothing, report report was really good and we I remember talking with [00:37:30] Diane like we watched it and say like it is okay for now. We can proceed with [00:37:35] it. Like we we already had our standards, but it was not it [00:37:40] was not great by our standards, but it had the minimal things [00:37:45] that we should have to move forward. So one day, uh, as, as [00:37:50] I told, I was told uh, later I was called by [00:37:55] the it was actually consultancy company. Uh, they called me like, we have [00:38:00] a very serious meeting with the minister and, we need to, [00:38:05] uh.

[00:38:06] Orkhan and Aykhan : We need we need you to be to be here. So I gathered my laptop [00:38:10] and other things like. Okay, I probably need to explain [00:38:15] the how the metrics are collected or what? Which figures? Uh, means, uh, what [00:38:20] thing? And, uh, I went there and Minister just looked at me, says like, [00:38:25] thank you guys for your work. And they. That was all. Why [00:38:30] why I was bringing that to that meeting. So, uh, after after [00:38:35] that, the people really saw the impact of this kind of work like it [00:38:40] not only for the this one single project. It needs to be done for the whole [00:38:45] company, for whichever the function that is there, it should have own data. [00:38:50] It should have the mindset to gather it, analyze it and use it properly. [00:38:55] And that was also an empowerment. And it was [00:39:00] also helped me to make myself as a trustworthy source of the data. [00:39:05] Because even whenever a people need something, they [00:39:10] always ask me like, where can I get it? Because I already been in every [00:39:15] like little system peaked at little data that they have. And, [00:39:20] uh, this, uh, this empowerment helped us [00:39:25] pick the team that we already have.

[00:39:28] Egidijus: What was this project about? [00:39:30] It seems very important.

[00:39:33] Orkhan and Aykhan : So this this [00:39:35] is a nationwide project to cover the whole the whole territory [00:39:40] of the country with the fiber infrastructure. Uh, it was started in 2021. [00:39:45] And as of today, in just four years, we [00:39:50] covered, uh, we did a 100%, almost [00:39:55] 100% coverage of the whole country with fiber network. So, [00:40:00] uh, fiber network is gigabit phone network, [00:40:05] so it’s also more energy efficient compared to the existing copper infrastructure. [00:40:10] So we did a lot of dismantling of copper. We migrated, [00:40:15] uh, users on aDSL to the new fiber network. [00:40:20] Uh, in you can already see in the for example, in [00:40:25] Oakland reports in Azerbaijan, statistics like 3 [00:40:30] or 4 years ago how the average speed was and currently where [00:40:35] we are at now. So we had like more than ten times increase in, uh, speeds, [00:40:40] both download and upload. Uh, we also had like the May [00:40:45] probably the largest fiber penetration, uh, across [00:40:50] the fixed internet users in the Europe. I checked [00:40:55] the our data is not official. Um, reported yet or analyzed [00:41:00] by many different companies that do this kind of researches. [00:41:05] But I compared their data to our own, and in four [00:41:10] years we did like ten years job of, uh, average country [00:41:15] in the Europe.

[00:41:17] Egidijus: Okay. So I can after [00:41:20] this upgrade of customer experience, did you have any job [00:41:25] left to do because you just increase customer experience through ten times bigger speed [00:41:30] than you’re done?

[00:41:33] Orkhan and Aykhan : Uh, it’s you would assume [00:41:35] that it should work. And, I mean, you’re just paid for, uh, you know, not working, [00:41:40] but it never actually ends in there. You know, I would say that it’s part of the core, [00:41:45] uh, offering. I mean, in, in, in fixed internet business, it’s all about the the [00:41:50] speed, the stability, the quality of the network, um, and the last mile. [00:41:55] And then only, I think after you have that handled, you can provide any [00:42:00] additional value to the customer. So, uh, since [00:42:05] we were still at the acquisition stage, the rollout was still going on. [00:42:10] Um, it was a very, uh, active acquisition stage. So we had a lot [00:42:15] of, uh, sales activities. We had a lot of new connections, new requests [00:42:20] and etc.. Uh, and at that time, uh, one of the things that we were [00:42:25] lacking when we first started it was online requests. I mean, you would assume an internet company [00:42:30] should have proper online requests, policy or procedure or process. We didn’t [00:42:35] have that, unfortunately. So one of the first things we did was create a very [00:42:40] simple online request form. But it’s not just about creating [00:42:45] that UX side. You know, there’s the communication side. You have to draw that traffic [00:42:50] into that. There’s the culture of people that, uh, after they get the internet, [00:42:55] They can, you know, access this form even though they have [00:43:00] we have really good mobile network penetration. Uh, but, uh, [00:43:05] the most challenging part would be creating the team that would handle this request, you [00:43:10] know, because, uh, when you create some new, uh, feature or new, uh, kind [00:43:15] of flow in the journey, uh, it is a touch point.

[00:43:18] Orkhan and Aykhan : You know, you need [00:43:20] to, uh, create the business process under. So we had to create [00:43:25] a team from scratch within the call center that would handle this, uh, request, uh, [00:43:30] and merge it with a regular process. So I would say that, uh, [00:43:35] the speed itself didn’t really fix all the issues, uh, but, [00:43:40] uh, it did, uh, I think it fixes issues for the future. [00:43:45] I mean, from the standpoint, I would say that, but, uh, having having [00:43:50] a team I keep saying about team, and I can’t stress it [00:43:55] enough. I think the team, the ownership of the team is the most important thing that [00:44:00] you can have it because customers feel it. You know, at the product, I mean, you can have the best product [00:44:05] or service in the world, but they feel at certain, uh, interaction with the [00:44:10] company if there is an ownership, you know, I do it as a customer myself on daily basis [00:44:15] when I, when I call a call center and I see something like a bug or like [00:44:20] a question, I know, okay, someone wrote this in FAQ. Good. Or hey, he [00:44:25] he sent me a template answer someone didn’t write this specific FAQ. You know, things like that. [00:44:30]

[00:44:32] Egidijus: Um, okay. And, uh, [00:44:35] and, and, uh, how did, uh, the, uh, how [00:44:40] did customer value management processes experience this, uh, fast rollout [00:44:45] of, uh, services? So I assume you had to do some customer [00:44:50] migration projects, upsells and cross-sells happening at the same time. So [00:44:55] how did you handle that?

[00:44:57] Orkhan and Aykhan : So, uh, basically we we [00:45:00] know that strategically we should have it, but we did not have it on hand during the [00:45:05] very, uh, let’s say, uh. During, [00:45:10] in most dynamic part of the project. [00:45:15] But, uh, what we do, uh, the, the [00:45:20] part that you are probably thinking about was done by different teams, [00:45:25] uh, because the strategically we know that, uh, we what what should [00:45:30] we do? Like what we should we do now and, uh, tomorrow, [00:45:35] what should be done. And that’s why the scope was distributed. Even, [00:45:40] uh, call center was, uh, involved into that processes. So, [00:45:45] uh, the one, uh, difficult thing in every [00:45:50] technological rollout is like how to convince [00:45:55] the customer to switch to this faster network. Like what he will benefit from. [00:46:00] So basically what we had is, uh, very simple [00:46:05] thing is just we give it to customers to try it like we did [00:46:10] simple campaigns like try and buy, because in the environment where you does [00:46:15] not have any like complicated, uh, sophisticated BSS [00:46:20] and or systems where data can be generated at least daily, [00:46:25] not or even real time, but not like in monthly [00:46:30] manner. Uh, we try to make it simpler, but creating [00:46:35] the biggest impact. So we analyzed and uh, just simple [00:46:40] try and by was did the trick.

[00:46:43] Egidijus: Um. Okay. [00:46:45] And, uh, so kind of you had [00:46:50] a shortcut here. Uh, but, [00:46:55] uh, kind of. But I like the approach that you kind of take. Uh, you use [00:47:00] the things that, uh, work the best. And from your, [00:47:05] uh, as a team perspective. So I Han, uh, and [00:47:10] so, uh, what did you learn about the collaboration between, uh, [00:47:15] both of you guys?

[00:47:20] Orkhan and Aykhan : We’re [00:47:20] still sitting here, as you see, we’re still friends. So that shows [00:47:25] how the team spirit is still, you know, active. Uh, it turned out [00:47:30] to be a very, uh, strong relationship between everyone. Uh, I [00:47:35] think, uh, the topic is about breaking silos. It’s one of the biggest issues that, uh, [00:47:40] companies have. Data is not shared, insights are not gathered or shared. [00:47:45] That’s why, uh, and every time the customer [00:47:50] is usually, you know, feeling that the negative sides of that. [00:47:55] So when we first started working, we needed to map the journey. [00:48:00] So what we did, we really did a nice exercise. We took the request. It [00:48:05] was a physical, uh, copy of like, so the user would say officially [00:48:10] that, hey, I want to connect to your internet. A bit outdated [00:48:15] process, but that’s what it was at the time. So we took that actual paper [00:48:20] and we followed it as it does throughout the company. That way we could map out the [00:48:25] internal business process, and we saw many touchpoints that [00:48:30] weren’t obvious. You know, for customer, even because you think that, hey, this is [00:48:35] the backstage, this is like the process that customer doesn’t face. But if a technician [00:48:40] calls the customer, that’s a touchpoint, that’s an engagement point. So one [00:48:45] of the situation that I still remember about how we broke the silo was our [00:48:50] trip to the cold center, so we were launching some kind of campaign. I think it was one [00:48:55] of the migration campaigns or something else.

[00:48:57] Orkhan and Aykhan : So we said, okay, we’re talking over phone, [00:49:00] we’re talking over emails. We never saw the face of this. People that would call our customer, [00:49:05] you know, let’s go to the cold center. Let’s see how they operate. Do do they have computers? [00:49:10] Do they have proper, you know, equipment, stuff like that. Are they there? Yeah. [00:49:15] Are they even there? Yeah. Maybe some kind of, you know, AI or whatever. But, [00:49:20] uh, really, we were just curious to see how they operate because it was operating good. It wasn’t [00:49:25] like that bad. But we were curious also to see we write this stuff, this, [00:49:30] uh, ideas and this processes in the office. Let’s see how it is in action. [00:49:35] Uh, and you know what happened. You know, the situations where you don’t know the [00:49:40] person at work like you’re new, uh, there’s kind of a barrier, and then you have [00:49:45] some kind of event or some team building whatever. And after you have inside jokes, [00:49:50] you’re like old friends and everything is fine. You know that feeling? Yeah. We [00:49:55] didn’t have that. We didn’t actually have that. It was a disaster. Uh, [00:50:00] we entered the building. Uh, we had a very hostile, you know, [00:50:05] feeling towards us. Maybe it was, you know, within us. Maybe we felt that way. But that’s [00:50:10] how we felt. We felt the resistance, you know, we looked again, looked at as [00:50:15] these guys from the headquarters, you know, the people in suits come and tell us [00:50:20] what to do. So we felt that and we said, guys, we are here to help the [00:50:25] customer.

[00:50:25] Orkhan and Aykhan : We always refer to the customer. We never said us as a team, you know, as we [00:50:30] the headquarters and stuff, we had that little session. So once they understand [00:50:35] why we’re doing this, all the barriers were off of all. [00:50:40] All the barriers were off. And what we saw was a lot of input. There [00:50:45] were a lot of complaints, both at the process, at the previous team [00:50:50] or whatever. It was like a cumulative, you know, complaints. But it really opened up everyone [00:50:55] and even very, uh, you know, um, quiet [00:51:00] people started talking like, as if we empowered them to talk. So that [00:51:05] would be, uh, the most memorable to me, uh, the moment where we broke the silo. But, [00:51:10] uh, the key success factor here is not just doing it once. It’s about consistently [00:51:15] keeping that conversation going, keeping that relationship because you [00:51:20] would be surprised. But once you stop, the silo is built again because people change people. [00:51:25] It’s all dynamic. You have to keep it that way. I would say that, uh, we didn’t [00:51:30] have those issues within the headquarters team match because, uh, we were close. [00:51:35] We were, you know, sitting together. We’re doing a lot. But all the remote teams, the branches, the call [00:51:40] center, even the sales team that would be in the field. We needed always [00:51:45] to do those exercises to actually get together, to, uh, to develop [00:51:50] that team spirit, you know, with them.

[00:51:53] Egidijus: Um, so, so [00:51:55] you basically kind of went and watched how all the processes looked like, [00:52:00] uh, kind of how would you resolve them? Is it like one by one? Do [00:52:05] you solve them somehow in bulk, or do you use other things like, I don’t know, um, [00:52:10] to, to push it through to kind of to solve [00:52:15] these pain points because kind of just to talk with the call center. It’s not enough. [00:52:20] Probably. Yeah.

[00:52:20] Orkhan and Aykhan : Yeah, sure. Of course. Uh, you know, um, since we, [00:52:25] uh, as a team, we like to, I mean, think of ourselves and it’s [00:52:30] proven by our record that we’re very data driven and we’re very customer centric. So by [00:52:35] default, the way we keep it, it’s a different story. Okay? We have our own ways of doing that. [00:52:40] But, uh, one of the goal was to instill that culture, uh, in [00:52:45] the organization at every point. So what we would do is we [00:52:50] would, uh, manage the processes from the office. We would establish the [00:52:55] flow of data. We would establish the behavior of, you know, data [00:53:00] collection about reporting and stuff remotely. We would mostly [00:53:05] do that once we have the data. And we had issues that we couldn’t identify [00:53:10] why this data is, you know, this way or whatever. We would go into [00:53:15] more, uh, face to face mode, you know, because, uh, it, [00:53:20] it you you wouldn’t notice it. It can become just a, you know, regular meeting that [00:53:25] no one really takes, uh, serious. So it’s really important to always understand [00:53:30] why you’re going there. What’s your purpose and how will customer benefit from it? [00:53:35] And second, always explain why you’re there. I mean, by default We are [00:53:40] used to this. You know, as I said, we have that culture to the person that doesn’t have that culture, it’s [00:53:45] really important to always remind him this is because of the customer. If and [00:53:50] you can put it in very layman terms, you know, if the customer doesn’t pay, [00:53:55] it results in, you know, uh, whatever that person, whatever is important [00:54:00] to that person. I’m not, you know, saying that, but, uh, or more complicated, [00:54:05] you know, terms and explanation that will help people understand it.

[00:54:08] Egidijus: From you guys. So [00:54:10] you had this huge transformation. And I want [00:54:15] to talk a bit about money, you know, so did the [00:54:20] CVM and customer experience, uh, bring more money on the table or not? [00:54:25]

[00:54:25] Orkhan and Aykhan : You know, we wouldn’t talk about the money itself. We all understand that. The [00:54:30] bottom line is always there. It’s all about the money. But I would rather maybe [00:54:35] discuss how, uh, our Where functions collaborated together. You know, maybe [00:54:40] give an example like, uh, like [00:54:45] the way we set up work with Orkhan and his team was, uh, when I say [00:54:50] we is the products team that I managed and by team that, uh, every [00:54:55] new development within the journey, uh, will be discussed, uh, between [00:55:00] the team, within the team, uh, the core functions to understand if it’s [00:55:05] more on the side, just making the customer happy or [00:55:10] about more making, uh, bring, like, generating more value [00:55:15] and therefore more revenue, you know, uh, but some situations just, uh, [00:55:20] granted, just doing it, you know, at the moment, without understanding why it was [00:55:25] just a fire that needed to be put up. So one story that I remember was, uh, so [00:55:30] the billing cycle ends, the customer doesn’t pay, and, uh, therefore, [00:55:35] the internet is cut off. We don’t have automated payments at the time, [00:55:40] so this was a very major issue at the beginning of months. The [00:55:45] call center would be booming with calls. You know, we would get requests from all [00:55:50] possible touch points.

[00:55:51] Orkhan and Aykhan : So we said, okay, guys, this is a technical issue, but [00:55:55] it’s also an experience issue, a journey issue, you know. So we said we can’t change [00:56:00] the behavior of the customer if he or she doesn’t pay. We can’t make them pay. But [00:56:05] we can smooth out the pain, the friction that happens with this process. [00:56:10] So we said, okay, uh, how does he understand that he doesn’t [00:56:15] have internet? He tries to access that internet. So we, uh, targeted [00:56:20] that touchpoint, and we created a landing page, kind of a pop up, uh, [00:56:25] a push notification that the customer, when trying to access the internet, when he didn’t [00:56:30] pay or she didn’t pay, uh, window would pop up with all detailed [00:56:35] information on what’s happening, why it’s why this person is seeing this, and [00:56:40] ways to resolve that issue, which would be the payment of it. And we really did [00:56:45] a really nice feature that the customer could access the payment platforms within that, [00:56:50] uh, you know, traffic without even having the internet. And actually, not [00:56:55] a lot of even mobile providers have that, uh, you know, uh, that [00:57:00] functionality. It’s kind of a dilemma that you need internet to pay for the internet, but you [00:57:05] don’t have internet, so.

[00:57:07] Egidijus: So you didn’t have internet because [00:57:10] you didn’t pay. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. You know, it’s a loop that.

[00:57:13] Orkhan and Aykhan : It’s never ending. So, uh, [00:57:15] why I told the story was that we saw this opportunity as a CX [00:57:20] issue. I mean, we saw this at the CX issue. We had an issue. We fixed it. The friction was, [00:57:25] uh, smoothed out. Uh, the reduced cost in call center [00:57:30] showed it, you know, as a data, uh, and then, uh, it worked [00:57:35] as a resolver of a problem. But then we had a meeting with Orkhan and we said, okay, [00:57:40] we have a new touchpoint. Let’s let’s, uh, use it somehow for future [00:57:45] as a CVM. And yes, it was basically the new opportunity to add additional [00:57:50] channel to the CVM communication. And we, uh, [00:57:55] but let me say that we launched it yet, but, uh, we [00:58:00] added to the strategy and we are we will show the people the value that can [00:58:05] bring that such feature, uh, for this company, not only on the customer [00:58:10] experience level, but on the value level, the revenue generation [00:58:15] itself.

[00:58:16] Egidijus: So basically, uh, if you need to [00:58:20] kind of if you are late to pay, you can also be upgraded. Yeah.

[00:58:24] Orkhan and Aykhan : Of course, [00:58:25] as a punishment. Kidding. Of course. Kidding. [00:58:30] At least you know our website is not [00:58:35] popular in these days. So customers not only go to website and [00:58:40] check like what offers are there, etc. but they just don’t need it. [00:58:45] Like whichever is it’s fine for me for now. Like what is, uh [00:58:50] what was the proposed during the actual the connection actual [00:58:55] installation? It will be enough. But creating the additional point where can we, uh, [00:59:00] additional touch point, where can we show the existing offers? Where [00:59:05] can we get those, uh, sweet upsell opportunities, [00:59:10] uh, also affecting the customer itself on the experience [00:59:15] level?

[00:59:16] Egidijus: And which touchpoints would you say are most important [00:59:20] in your case? Is it like call center point of sale or telemarketing [00:59:25] or, uh.

[00:59:27] Orkhan and Aykhan : Um, for, uh, from, KC’s [00:59:30] perspective, I would say a customer doesn’t need. Ideally, [00:59:35] a customer doesn’t need to know the call center number. That means he [00:59:40] or she doesn’t have issues to contact. You know, ideally. But of course it also depends [00:59:45] on the part of the journey. I mean, if it’s a new client, it’s the first experience. [00:59:50] It’s the connection. It’s the first request. It’s the first onboarding process, [00:59:55] maybe first issue or first resolution of the issue. Uh, otherwise [01:00:00] it’s uh, then it becomes more of a, let’s say, a retention. Or if [01:00:05] it’s a CVM matter, it would be the calling. Yeah. Then the [01:00:10] the contact center or whoever does the, uh, the, the upgrade [01:00:15] calls to the customers. But, uh, if we talk about communication, it’s about [01:00:20] controlling the tone of voice and the frequency of contact. It’s very important not to bug [01:00:25] them a lot, you know? Uh, but rather than that, I would say it depends on the company’s [01:00:30] product itself. I mean, if it’s a digital product, I mean, it’s the [01:00:35] app or the website. If it’s more physical, it’s the physical experience. It’s the in-store [01:00:40] experience. I would say from CX standpoint, that’s that’s the way it is.

[01:00:44] Egidijus: Yeah. [01:00:45] And our kind from the sales perspective, where do you sell the most.

[01:00:50] Orkhan and Aykhan : From [01:00:50] the from the sales perspective also depends [01:00:55] on the company maturity level. So at for example, at my [01:01:00] point currently the targeted calls is very efficient. It’s [01:01:05] more efficient than let’s say from automated calls. But [01:01:10] also if there is some technical limitations are in place, like [01:01:15] I can contact my all of my customers with automated calls [01:01:20] and even offer something to them. But whatever happens next, if it’s [01:01:25] not technically, uh, like, uh, covered by the current [01:01:30] systems. There is no mean to, uh, to do it, of course, but, [01:01:35] uh, the overall, in my opinion, the whichever is, [01:01:40] uh, customers favorite, uh, customer should receive it by this [01:01:45] channel. So I saw the good experience in like more most of [01:01:50] the digital services where customers is being asked like, uh, [01:01:55] which channel do you prefer so we can contact you on. Like, I don’t want any [01:02:00] calls from myself to receive some upsell [01:02:05] offers or, uh, to be notified, like I need to pay for my, [01:02:10] uh, internet service, etc. on my call, but I would rather read [01:02:15] it from my email, for example. So basically, uh, approach [01:02:20] that each customer can choose its own [01:02:25] channel. It should should be the best one.

[01:02:28] Egidijus: So, uh, guys, you [01:02:30] went through an amazing journey from, like, launching CVM processes, customer [01:02:35] experience processes, participating in the process when the whole country was [01:02:40] covered with fiber internet. And it seems that you did a great job, [01:02:45] because even a minister calls you into the meeting and [01:02:50] says thank you. It’s a great job. You know, it sounds like a [01:02:55] really impressive story, but we need to start wrapping up. [01:03:00] And, uh, for all our guests, we ask a couple of wrap up [01:03:05] questions. So there will be for both of you guys. Uh, first of all, we [01:03:10] we always start from. What was the proudest moment in your career? So the the minister [01:03:15] moment is out now. It doesn’t count. Okay. [01:03:20] So, um, I can let’s start with you. [01:03:25]

[01:03:26] Orkhan and Aykhan : I would say the if you call it, let’s say highlight, [01:03:30] uh, it wasn’t like a single project or a moment. It was more about the [01:03:35] realization, uh, the shift in culture in, [01:03:40] in Aztelekom experience. It’s, uh, one day after like 2 or [01:03:45] 2 and a half years, I just realized that. And we had this conversations with Orkhan [01:03:50] very often that do you remember the way it was like we [01:03:55] were looking at some report and just, uh, you know, randomly stop and be like, do [01:04:00] you remember the text files? I don’t know, or do you remember something else? And I even get goosebumps [01:04:05] just saying it because it was very powerful moment that, uh, you don’t, uh, [01:04:10] you don’t you take it for granted. You think that’s the way it’s supposed to be, but when you can reflect [01:04:15] and see actually the product in front of you, that’s very powerful moment. I would [01:04:20] say that that’s the highlight of, uh, of of that feeling, uh, [01:04:25] from my side. Uh, the, uh, that was the [01:04:30] like, couple of years ago, uh, whenever I present some information [01:04:35] that everybody just looked at it and just, uh, [01:04:40] blindly agree with me. But two years ago, this, this one guy [01:04:45] started to challenge me. And coming back to what [01:04:50] Aykhan said, like, the culture is changing, like, uh, there is people [01:04:55] coming from here and there, like who, uh, who understand [01:05:00] the difference that this approach, what difference this approach makes. And [01:05:05] the guys that was challenging me started a real good [01:05:10] case where every data should be, every insight should be challenged. Like, do not [01:05:15] blindly, uh, believe every information that you are, uh, that you are [01:05:20] seeing, like you are watching.

[01:05:22] Egidijus: So you saw this data driven transformation basically [01:05:25] in action.

[01:05:26] Orkhan and Aykhan : With own hands, all by [01:05:30] own hands, with own eyes.

[01:05:33] Egidijus: Um, down [01:05:35] the road. I bet you had some, uh, uh, stories [01:05:40] from which you could learn. And, uh, not everything was only easy [01:05:45] path. Yeah. Could you share some of your experiences in this area? [01:05:50]

[01:05:52] Orkhan and Aykhan : Um, I would say the whole journey was really hard, [01:05:55] but it was really exciting and very fruitful as far as experience and emotions. [01:06:00] Uh, I once again, I don’t remember a specific case, but, uh, [01:06:05] but, uh, cumulatively speaking, uh, my lesson learned from [01:06:10] this situation was that you need to consider the culture of who you’re [01:06:15] facing, uh, consider their current state, uh, even though we had [01:06:20] a certain vision and we were going really, you know, aggressively towards building [01:06:25] that culture. Not everyone was at the same stage of understanding it, the perception [01:06:30] of it, etc. So I would say my lesson learned was you [01:06:35] need to really consider who you’re facing and consider their situation [01:06:40] because your, your success is affected, uh, by that condition. [01:06:45] You know, like the situation where we spoke about MPs just as [01:06:50] if it’s normal, but people in the audience didn’t really understand what MPs was, you know, situations [01:06:55] like thing. I think before looking at the customer journey, you first [01:07:00] to need to look at the internal one within the organization. And [01:07:05] on my side, uh, the lesson learned was mostly [01:07:10] about the complication of existing processes. Uh, [01:07:15] so we had A really good success [01:07:20] in upselling those customers with just basic data and very basic [01:07:25] offer. And but before that, we tried to do it [01:07:30] like in our complicated, uh, manner. Uh, mainly [01:07:35] we, uh, did, uh, a lot of calculations before, [01:07:40] before that to, uh, to at least try to, uh, [01:07:45] offer the right people the right offer. But we’re [01:07:50] just over complicated things where you can technically not, [01:07:55] uh, support it. So the making things easier, making [01:08:00] things simpler is my lesson learned from all of that. Because the [01:08:05] simpler thing was working better than most of complicated [01:08:10] things.

[01:08:14] Egidijus: And, uh, [01:08:15] guys, how do you learn how? How would you inspire [01:08:20] others to learn? What are your learning sources in this [01:08:25] journey?

[01:08:27] Orkhan and Aykhan : Um, I used to read books. I mean, [01:08:30] the self, you know, self improvement books and etc. but I noticed [01:08:35] that for the last, let’s say, 7 or 10 years, I stopped doing that. Uh, in, [01:08:40] in, in my field, I would say because we’re very, uh, feedback [01:08:45] and customer centric. I mean, the work is built [01:08:50] around customer. I would say staying close to reality and actuality is the key. [01:08:55] Uh, talk to the customers, talk to the stakeholders within the [01:09:00] organization, the front lines, the call centers, the branches. Hear them out. [01:09:05] Really hear them out. That would be the best way to learn how to better serve your [01:09:10] customer. Uh, but, uh, as far as, uh, staying, like, [01:09:15] in a good condition as a as a professional. Just stay on the trends. [01:09:20] Uh, be part of, uh, groups, conferences [01:09:25] and etc.. That’s that’s what I try to do a lot. And, uh, I mean, you can [01:09:30] read textbooks from time to time. It’s just it changes so, so often, so fast [01:09:35] that they can be outdated, really. And there’s a lot of opinions. So it’s really, really [01:09:40] important, I think, to stick to your own opinion, which is based off of [01:09:45] your real experience. I just sit and thought that every time [01:09:50] I improved myself where that was, where when I put myself [01:09:55] in uncomfortable situation, like where I go technical, where I have no technical [01:10:00] skills, where I go more analytical, where I have no such thing in order. [01:10:05] So, uh, maybe, uh, putting yourself in more difficult situations [01:10:10] is also shaping your, uh, your skills in a positive manner.

[01:10:16] Egidijus: I [01:10:15] think this is a very wise advice, [01:10:20] you know. Uh, stay close to your customer and go uncomfortable. [01:10:25] Yeah. And they have, uh, one last question for both of [01:10:30] you. So my mission is to make customer value management field famous. So what [01:10:35] would be your advice on, uh, doing this?

[01:10:39] Orkhan and Aykhan : I think I’ll [01:10:40] go first because I want to finish on that because he’s more, uh, you know, close to [01:10:45] that, uh, arena. Uh, I would say, uh, whatever you’re doing is already a [01:10:50] big, uh, step. I know you have a very, uh, maybe not a mass [01:10:55] audience, but I see it’s very topic focused, which is really nice. And [01:11:00] I think, uh, activities like this helps a lot to spread around what others are doing, [01:11:05] what experiences they are. Because, uh, you’re more focused about real stories and real [01:11:10] experiences. This is very crucial to not having, you know, just [01:11:15] a regular podcast with people talking whatever you can access online. We’re actually [01:11:20] talking about real stories that we wouldn’t share anywhere else. So I think the biggest thing [01:11:25] is about creating these platforms like you did. I [01:11:30] agree with like you, you need you need platforms. You need [01:11:35] some kind of, uh, place where you can share your experiences. [01:11:40] You can. But what, uh, what are [01:11:45] you doing is very, very great. Has very great, uh, impact on [01:11:50] the, the whole, uh, the whole, uh, [01:11:55] the whole CVM market because, uh, I, uh, [01:12:00] I was, I was talking with Aiden, who I’m [01:12:05] working with, who is my CVM guy.

[01:12:07] Orkhan and Aykhan : Uh, he was [01:12:10] talking about, Like, did you see the did you read the CVM book book? That it [01:12:15] is, it is very great. I, I like uh, I, [01:12:20] I learned a lot from it. It has very good points [01:12:25] like check it out. And that’s where I learned about this platform. So, uh, [01:12:30] book the book for example. Like this is a simple case, but it’s [01:12:35] very impactful also because it has a its own it has its [01:12:40] own voice. Uh, because making it public make it [01:12:45] make make makes it better to, uh, better to understand [01:12:50] not only from for the CVM, uh, related guys, but [01:12:55] the whole audience, because, uh, most of the functions [01:13:00] inside the single standard company has some, uh, [01:13:05] correlation with CVM because they are either dependent depended on it, or [01:13:10] they can work together and bring more value. And [01:13:15] like we shared an example with Icahn. So the KCS [01:13:20] and CVM working together brings very good [01:13:25] value. And that can be for all the functions.

[01:13:31] Egidijus: So [01:13:30] thank you guys. Thank you for sharing your really [01:13:35] unique, uh, story. A challenging one and [01:13:40] inspiring one at the same time. So thank [01:13:45] you for for joining us.

[01:13:47] Orkhan and Aykhan : Thank you. Thank you for having us. Thank you for inviting [01:13:50] us. Nice to remember those things. Yeah.

[01:13:54] Exacaster: CVM Stories [01:13:55] is produced by Exacaster. We help companies take their customer value management to the next level. [01:14:00] To stay updated on our latest episodes, subscribe to the podcast or sign up for an [01:14:05] email newsletter at exacaster.com/cvmstories